I mean… it is what it is… I can’t help but have the role that I have.
ok really going to sleep now 
He was in the middle of doing an ISO and then disappeared
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Yeah, I read that post and that’s why I asked because he didn’t say anything clear about how he read you.
Votecount as of post #2686
Cream (4): Lemonfairy, obscurity, Gyrlander, Leafia
Magnus (3): Glass, Marluna
Lissi (1): Zorvo
Marluna (1): lol
Not Voting (3): Magnus, Lissi, Cream
VOTE: Magnus
Meh I’ll give cream unsufferable tryhard points
they seem more wolfy to me
What a wonderful world. Pretend I never left, it’s less awkward that way.
Continued
This is Cream following up on their reads, or at least applying pressure. Presumably, I usually read ISOs in a vacuum because more often than not what someone responds to is more important than what they don’t respond to. At least for finding whether a specific somebody is a worthwhile target, not to determine between one party or the other.
It’s often easiest to find evidence to support your reads than evidence that disputes your reads, which is what seems to be happening here.
I’m not trying to say Cream is wrong to see such behaviour as coming from Town, but this feels like a fallacy or a bias, looking for reasons to trust the people you know. Strangely enough, such behaviour is more likely to come from a villager, feeling like you can trust others for something that’s really not AI, unless you’re both partnered… but what are the odds of that?
Rolls dice.
Okay, I’m joking. As a matter of fact, this is what a “POE” is, limiting your targets and pointing out the likeliest candidates within.
Was there any progression from townleaning Lemon for “not playing by the book” to nominating them for execution? The fact that all three are Town could just be a coincidence, and you wouldn’t have known that at the time as Town.
If Cream is wolf, this is an excuse to misexe Town LHF without looking bad. That would suggest a fellow evil was under fire… or maybe not, since w!Cream could want to spare a wagoned townie and save them for later. Here were the votes at the time:
Zorvo (2): Leafia, Lissi
Lissi (2): Zorvo, lol
lol (1): Lemonfairy
ElizaThePsycho (1): Cream
beancat (1): Gyrlander
Strange how Cream didn’t mention Beancat’s name despite wanting to chop LHF.
Cream didn’t try very hard to shift the votes around, though, so I don’t think I was wrong? declaring Zorvo and Lissi V/V? My point still stands, in any case; the gamestate had stagnated. I’ll need to assemble a new readlist later, everything else has been thrown out the window, but I’m not looking too much into this.
I’m pretty sure Cream was primarily responsible for setting the Beancat execution into motion. Leafia had been known to protect Lol, and Lemon claimed (to my memory) about being immune. Rather than accusing Beancat for town points, Cream should’ve accused someone else (heck, in the same post Cream shared suspicion on me, why not push me instead?). Under normal circumstances bussing would be permissible, but with two known BPV givers and the capability to shoot bulletproof villagers… I mean, the Mafia kills were really weird, so maybe that wasn’t a priority, but it’d strange nonetheless.
How accurate would you call this list presently?
(Regarding Zorvo.)
I like to understand individual playstyles and get to know them. Hence why I’m quoting instances of Cream being hesitant and/or cautious, to support the idea I have in my head.
Sure was convenient the BPV vig died that same day, or else things could’ve gone really poorly. As a matter of fact, how was it put…? Something along the lines of not giving information away, but trying to redirect Town’s attention away from the misconception. Someone said something about that in Flicker, I’m pretty sure. Leafia would know.
Would anyone call Gorta LHF? Cream claimed to have a habit of chopping LHF (D1, but it’s still applicable), and likely nobody would’ve thought twice about it if Cream hadn’t said a word. Once again, Cream isn’t playing optimally if she’s evil, although that can’t be used as a defence with these night kills. The only reason to mention this is for credit once Gorta flips as good.
I remember Lissi saying they would’ve expected you to die N1. If you would’ve been immune on that night, it’s interesting how Mafia evading ideal kills like the plague would’ve worked out then as well, in conjunction with avoiding redirecting Obscurity N2. Are you informed if you survive an attack with this modifier? (It’s a modifier, right?)
I like this example, because it further characterises Cream as a cautious player.
- Is Lol making up the redirect claim? A fellow Mafia would have no reason to redirect Lol here, and a villager with the role would’ve claimed rather quickly. So in that case, there likely wouldn’t be a Mafia redirector and everything’s thrown out the window.
- While that would explain evils not controlling Obscurity for a double kill (or into Lol, to kill him anyway), the problem with this theory is that nobody seems to be completely blind to the gamestate. Lol didn’t just mention the BPV once in a wallpost.
- In which case it’d be optimal for Mafia to control Obscurity into Lol, if that’s their intention. Lol’s behaviour is incredibly strange in world #1, Mafia’s behaviour is strange in any world. This is a strange game.
Actually, …I have a hypothesis. Ask me once I’m done.
By the day, I’m fairly certain Leafia had already claimed stolen vote and Lol redirected? Both were already in the thread at the time, so it should’ve been common knowledge.
Town are usually the most willing to die, for obvious reasons. Of course anyone can say they’re okay with dying, but it all depends on whether your behaviour matches up. I was talking D1 about defensive =/= justification, or the difference between trying to keep yourself alive for your own sake and trying to make yourself less of a target because you’re Town (it’s difficult to explain, but I’ll provide an example soon.)
Disregard earlier point about common knowledge.
I was already thinking it, but around now I’m almost confident that Cream’s misinformation comes from Town. There’s a reason why Mafia are known as the Informed Minority, and a good player would know they didn’t redirect Lemon and likely wouldn’t stop to think of this lie, especially knowing it would be corrected promptly.
I’m getting flashbacks to Marluna’s D1 comment.
Drawing back to the defensive / justified theory from before, Cream isn’t trying to argue for her continued survival by saying stuff like “I can mess with the redirector, YOU NEED ME, that’s why you need to keep me alive,” or even “your reasons for suspecting me are completely unfounded, leave me alone and go for someone else.” It’s not a proven theory, but pulling from experience Cream’s playing like a villager just trying to stay alive. “You can execute me, but your time would be better spent elsewhere. By the way, before I’m possibly executed I’ll just devote my resources to solving.”
In Morbtainado I was in a similar situation, with an evil supposedly between me and another player. I wanted Town to resolve between us immediately, but (I don’t quite remember how or why), stuff happened and another player was executed instead. Lo and behold, both me and the other player were Town, but neither of us had any way of knowing that for certain because it wasn’t resolved. I like to consider each game I play as being in a chain, with past events influencing future events, and therefore I draw on personal experiences to make decisions.
Cream then posted a series of thoughts, which I’m not quoting here.
It’s not really in-depth, but it should suffice.
I skipped over Cream’s suspicion on Zorvo because I haven’t subscribed to that school of thought, I haven’t looked at Zorvo’s ISO and reached my own conclusion. I can’t confidently brand Cream as evil, and that’s why I’m not casting a vote right now. If I’m willing to believe that Cream is good, I’d need to look closer at other individuals. I pointed out Marluna’s behaviour for D1, but from what I’ve seen of D2 (live, not reread), I don’t necessarily scumread Marluna anymore.
Not that it matters, since a decent town case could be made for literally anyone alive. I’d imagine Mafia are doing a decent job at looking good, but not that good of a job making others look bad. If that’s the purpose behind their nightkills, that could explain a lot.
I can tell you this, from my own impression: if Cream is Mafia, I’d imagine their playstyle revolves around acting as towny as possible, trying to get towncleared without leading (because when you’re leading and aren’t nightkilled that’s a bad look), the whole works.
Yeah, I was asking why you believe that’s the case lol. Or is it a gut read?
can’t target myself
poe + magnus using his role in a townier way (not using it)
actuslly idk ill probably change my mind again
I’m not really sure what to do. Everyone has towny moments. Clearly the mafia is putting in a lot of effort so idk how much stake you give it. I guess I’ll follow lemon/lol then I’ll actually read the walls later
VOTE: Marluna
Lettuce see
good morning
have a tinfoil that has no basis in reality: if Lissi and Cream were a scumteam with beancat, my NK would make total sense
going to dip from thread bye
Votecount as of post #2698
Cream (3): Lemonfairy, Gyrlander, Leafia
Magnus (3): Glass, Marluna
Marluna (2): lol, obscurity
Lissi (1): Zorvo
Not Voting (3): Magnus, Lissi, Cream
Day 3 ends at 2022-09-17T12:00:00Z
Soft-Plurality is reached at 4 votes.
Supermajority is reached at 8 votes.
The fact Cream is letting Lissi off the hook I’m probably voting them next or Marluna.
In the sense Cream flips Wolf