'80s Wild Overhaul FM - TOWN VICTORY

[Lemonfairy]

I looked through cream’s reads list and idk, there’s just a lot of text and no real scumread anywhere?
I need to find the posts for Gyrlander and Marluna

[Marluna]

So the argument was flawed from the first moment.

[Lemonfairy]

I still think the NK wouldn’t affect role abilities, regardless of whether the role abilities are day or night

[Lemonfairy]

like, usually one scum would just be assigned to carry the kill but that shouldn’t interfere with their role action?

[Host_Account_5]

Votecount as of post #2745

Cream (6): Lemonfairy, Gyrlander, Leafia, Zorvo, obscurity, lol
Magnus (1): Glass

Not Voting (4): Magnus, Lissi, Cream, Marluna

[Lissi]

cream pt 2

@Lissi

note: also I think that Cream’s beancat vote could maybe be weighed more, but bastion might not be the best game to analyze w since agentt that game was a bit more openly scummy than beancat was, having less posts

right so I guess I will keep on going from here

reads on everyone, reason why she voted beancat right after

'80s Wild Overhaul FM - Day 3 (11/14) - #1330 by Cream

I was gonna say, I think this deserves more credit than Lemon gives in her Cream ISO

If I relook at this post and think about it more,
it makes sense that Cream voted beancat because she had a reason why she felt beancat was being contradictory but also leafia was just questions even if she felt it wasn’t towny at all, and magnus was just a feeling but she hasn’t read enough

But she votes beancat anyways and starts the wagon

she doesn’t push it nearly as hard as she did the t!agentt wagon as wolf in bastion

but I think similarly it’s just one small-ish reason

and going off that thought

she could easily have flipped to vote leafia
for the not towny mindset, despite the questioning (for she also had questions for beancat)

I don’t think Cream’s much of a busser
like in our hydra game together as scum, I’m pretty sure most of the soft bussing & arguing w scumbuddy came from me, because that is what I gravitated towards as scum when I wasn’t as experienced

I don’t think that is true for Cream
I think Cream, if given the option, would rather vote someone other than her scumbuddy

this is a bit spread out but she finds agentt (town) really scummy in bastion, and votes him
https://forum.novelupdates.com/threads/tiggerbanes-wild-ride-to-bastion.131767/page-110#post-6596876

starting a new wagon when the counterwagon to him, joker, was at 2 votes and town

then later she names one of her scumbuddies as the final member of a scumteam containing town, town, scum (ln)

https://forum.novelupdates.com/threads/tiggerbanes-wild-ride-to-bastion.131767/page-122#post-6598566

but doesn’t vote her (which is a weak reason bc it does make more sense to vote her scumread who she bases this team off but still)

and then the post afterwards says her reads are bad bc there weren’t any scum flips to go off of (aka she doesn’t put too much weight in it)

which I think in comparison makes her vote this game a bit more towny

bc she doesn’t needlessly bus and if she was unhappy with current wagons town or not she could’ve easily started a new one and it didn’t have to be beancat, her would be scumbuddy

even if she didn’t push him hard afterwards for more votes on him, which ig is the one thing I would say detracts from this argument slightly, though being understandable bc she wasn’t here

---

more random things:

I forgot if I said this before but I take back saying that Cream’s fluff towny feeling posts are town-indicative

https://forum.novelupdates.com/threads/tiggerbanes-wild-ride-to-bastion.131767/page-104#post-6595940
https://forum.novelupdates.com/threads/tiggerbanes-wild-ride-to-bastion.131767/page-99#post-6594718

I guess she does the same as mafia

---

If I were to name any strong impression I had of her scumgame prior to rereading

it would be that she lets go of her convictions

she pushed agentt (town) for being scummy all day
but in the end let herself be swayed to vote for joker (town) who she thought was towny

and post game she said she went with it because she thought, lissi’s just in one of her indomitable tunnels again

(really I had an ulterior motive bc I bet on joker dying and needed him to die for me to win)

but cream doesn’t really get swayed by my tunnels that much
esp if she disagrees

I think it’s towny that she is still expressing her reads on zorvo being scum even when no one else agrees

it also aligns with how she must feel about roleclaims, with ppl saying her/zorvo diff

---

I think the hedging thing from earlier does lean town after all

her starting reads are more solid this game whatever happens

and it’s not like the other game where she just put people on the side for ?? reasons (i.e. deciding mason!Iso townreading t!me and mason!Glass was good enough to put me aside when obv if she thought I was 50% likely to be scum she should’ve just asked if I was the other mason) and then deciding to easily open POE on everyone except the mason!Glass after that

like I think Cream has been consistent in re evalling her read (on me, etc)

but also has been solid enough on it, she’s not really dumping people back in poe for whatever reasons

tho ppl have been fairly more townier than bastion

and there is a good difference between town/scum on her list

---

this isn’t from bastion but last game we played, t!Cream was advocating for t!me to not be cleared so easily for doing towny actions bc she knew that I, as mafia, know what the towny thing to do is, and will do it

i.e. one game I was T-doming a townie out of necessity
and I got a landslide vote in my favor because I did the townier thing, aka trying to solve in the T-dome
while my town opponent didn’t go much further than trying to CC

I think with this sort of awareness about these things
It is not impossible for Cream to be doing the towny thing right now, aka solve before death aka tryharding

but personally, even with this knowledge
I still think Cream is town for this because our situations are different

in that T-dome, I solved bc I wanted to appear towny enough to get votes
AKA there was a benefit for me, living to next day and using my PR as mafia vanilla vig

I think Cream doesn’t stand to gain anything from these legacy reads
she already admitted she knew she was going to go down

everyone is so set on her too, and I feel sympathetic too because like, a large part is the roleclaim and while I agree it’s not the most towny, neither is anyone else’s, and if she’s town then what is she supposed to do, this is the role she got and it’d be more anti-town to lie about it

but anyways, if mafia she could just afk if she’s already expressed she’s willing to accept death

she even agreed to self vote in the end

like what’s the point of more spew if wolf

tho ig hammer isn’t maj
but supermaj

so we’re close but not fully there

ok I will reread my thoughts/her iso this game again and decide how much I weigh each point and finish my read on the bus

yeah this has a lot of both ways things but I just wanna get everything out before breakfast

@Cream what’s your read on Marluna again

[Lissi]

I think it’s supermaj for early hammer

Maj was for exe in first/last 6 hours but it was one time only and already used

[Lissi]

@Glass

Also didnt liz say she was going to dream of town today is possible? So would someone then visiting or checking her disrupt that

yeah so no one should visit me tonight

[Lissi]

didn’t we already resolve this? what is your insight here?

[Lissi]

@Zorvo did you ever reply to my question of when your vote was taken

[Leafia]

Because he’s still a threat tonthem. What if the redirector dies?

@Cream

Yes I do and with what happened EoD yesterday and what I was told by Zone, lol is 100% town. You see, Zone informed me at EoD 2 that my votes had been stolen sometime during D2. I can’t imagine lol acting the way he did if he had known about that. That wasn’t a good shot. Not the worst possible one, but not a good one. It would’ve counted if my votes hadn’t been stolen. He did. Yes I did. Correct. I doubt the vote thief is only one shot.

It wasn’t “I found the post.” Like literally check time stamps. I responded within the minute.

I was going and replying chronologically through the thread.

Last post I had replied to was Magnus’s post here:

I don’t even understand what you’re replying to here or why. I never even mentioned anything regarding that.

@Cream

That I am mafia, and I just so happened to be catching up on D3, and replying to the posts in chronological order, and had just responded to post 2053. Then you mentioned vote stealer, and it’s just oh-so coincidental and the perfect opportunity for me to fake not knowing about the vote stealer in this thread.

Vote stealer was mentioned several times in the thread. In fact, I mentioned it in my first post of the day. So that reasoning is invalid. It was even discussed in length by several people.

@Zorvo

Actually wait that’s a good question.
If 3 roles were already revealed why does a town member have the ability to learn 2 more?

As much as I hate to admit it, that is a good question.

@lol

i was the first one to talk about a votestealer

i said my vote was stolen and leafia got really scared i said that

Not scared. Annoyed about the misconception.

@Cream

Majority is triggered with 7 votes

Actual vote count is counted to determine weighted vote, to see if a sufficient number of weighted votes has been reached.

If everyone here is town:
Cream (1), Gyrlander (1), obscurity (1), Leafia (0), Lissi (1), Marluna (1), lol (0)

Weighted vote count is 5 and bean would not have been executed.

Or my votes eere stolen after Beancat got executed. That’s a possibility too.

@Cream

@Leafia would it be possible to ask the host about what happens if you steal mafia votestealer’s vote, but then votestealer also steals your vote?

I don’t steal votes. I offer vests in exchange for them. It’s like how you go to the store and see that BPVs are on sale costing one vote each, there’s only two left, and it’s only one BPV per visit and you can only visit once a night. Also, the shopkeeper chooses who can visit each night during the day but can only choose one person a day.

@Cream

So I would know Gorta couldn’t get elimmed without my vote (since Leafia (0) Obscurity (1) and Glass (1)) won’t reach 4 votes.

Yet I decided to wake up before 5AM … and I see town Gorta on the way to being elimmed, and decide to not vote him and let Gorta live?

As mafia, I could have easily just voted Gorta and said that I was helping with the double exe and just going with majority.

I was about to say that this was a villagery post until I realized that no you couldn’t with how much me and other people wanted to confirm my double vote.

@Cream

what happens to people who bleed

They die the next night.

@Cream

I recommend re-evaluating the POE after each flip.

This is honestly a good idea regardless of your alignment.

[Leafia]

Just had a very funny thought too thst I had to share.

90% of the time

Leafia: Heading out now. Good night everyone.

Two hours later…

A wild Leafia appears!

Giggles

[Lemonfairy]

@Leafia

A wild Leafia appears!

throws pokeball

[Leafia]

You caught a wild Leafia!

[Lemonfairy]

puts Leafia in my pocket

[Cream]

You wanted a readlist.

It’s vaguely ordered.

That’s how my reads start out. People don’t play one-dimensionally in a “everything this person does is town or mafia.” There are frequently both townie and scummy components. To acknowledge one but not the other is narrow minded and potentially scummy. It’s like what I said at the end of Eggnog FM. To focus on one aspect despite evidence to the contrary is bad solving and generally scum indicative. So yes, it’s not like my bottom reads are going to be massive scum cases where I go on about how everything this person does is so massively scum, and they don’t have a single townie thing in favor of them.

Being fair and comprehensive is the preliminary work.

What I then look for is a reason that outweighs all else. Sometimes it happens, sometimes it doesn’t.

My reads are not solely captured in those two posts. I have talked about Zorvo in other posts. I have asked questions and pointed things out in other posts. You’d also have to look there.

[Leafia]

Enjoys it there

[Leafia]

I just hope we’re right about Cream being scum. Even I’m having some doubts in my mind, although that’s pretty normal.

Why are you assuming my votes were stolen before Beancat got executed Cream?

[Cream]

I am okay with dying. I don’t need you guys to vote anyone else.

What I will suggest though… is that we should think critically about HOW we go about the voting. Zorvo has 0 votes supposedly.

I think he should be on my wagon. Strong town and people who are not mafia votestealer should be on my wagon. So yes, I’m going to ask Glass, Leafia, and Obscurity to vote me because they are all not mafia votestealer. I’m going to ask you to vote me because you aren’t. I will self-vote. Magnus should vote me since he isn’t within the mafia votestealer pool.

What I think we should do is trigger a public vote supermajority with Zorvo on the wagon, and if the vote doesn’t go through due to actual vote being lesser, we know mafia votestealer is not on the wagon.

If the vote does go through, we know mafia votestealer is on the wagon.

So I think we should use this as an opportunity to narrow down the list of the mafia votestealer.

Mafia votestealer is within lol / Marluna / Lissi / Gyrlander

I’d say to think about who within this subset we think is mafia votestealer, and who we want off the wagon. I don’t want all 4 on my wagon. I’d ask for 2 at most.

I hope this will give you strong mechanical information as to who may be mafia votestealer and who may not be.

[Leafia]

We don’t know exactly when my vite was stolen or if it has been stolen yet. You’re definitely assuming a lot. Although if it doesn’t go through, we know my vote has already been stolen so that’s a plus. That and the vitestealer isn’t on the wagon.