April Showers The Third - NIGHT 3 (12/16)

[Rhea]

@soweli

VOTE: Frostwolf103

gg vanity wagon time (ignore that the value of a vanity wagon is depreciated when top wagon is 2 votes)

I found the way that Frostwolf103 “gave town points to” but did not unvote Starboy at EoD yesterday odd, but the way he has been acting, full of implicit assumptions and subtle communications, has been fairly villagery to my eye.

I do not mind inspection here, but I would need much more convincing to agree with a vote.

[Leafia]

I don’t like Soweli’s vote either. I’m not that bad a wolf and I act like this literally every towngame I have. Wolfgame too I suppose. Everything about my slot screams out villager. If I was a wolf, why wouldn’t I announce in thread who sent me that message before anticlaiming them? Answer that question. Instead, I’ve done nothing with it, even keeping the person’s identity a secret. I’d never do that as a wolf.

[Rhea]

@ElizaThePsycho

im pretty sure this is NAI atm tbh

Villagers should always care about the day’s outcome. Anything less would constitute non-gameplay.

[Jarek]

@Rhea

Why do you think we could not have failed so completely as to vote for only villagers on Day 1?

Well for one because I believe I have a wolf pinned between one of two wagons one of which I was voting - albiet my confidence did wane now and then. But secondly, because there were so many counterwagons with the top wagon not even getting that many votes that to believe that happened with no wolf intereference would be to assume town is shooting itself in the foot while wolves get away with just watching.

It’s Possible but it’s the kind of thing I don’t achnowledge as the first possibility.

[Frostwolf103]

@Leafia

If I was a wolf

I can also name on why risk joining on Pandora’s wagon to help Rhea out, in case it is ability how many mafia voted in that wagon right? Which is why I think you’re town and not wolf.

[Jarek]

@Rhea

What mechanism do you propose that would stop this?

There’s not much you can do to control votes other than having town leaders be trusted and heard so that other people vote with them and should they die have their legacies trusted too. Not even town leaders really just general town-read players. I’m not volunteering.

[Leafia]

It would be hard to do so for reasons tou can probably guess but I’ll do my best. The main reason was because even going into N1, I wasn’t sure about his alignment. Also, if I get misexed somehow, Pandora should always be the D3 exe.

[soweli]

This is uncompelling. I don’t think your slot generally screams town & also… what why would you announce who sent you the message as wolf what is the logic walk me through it please.

[Jarek]

Sry I just spotted this what message

[Jarek]

Everything is happening to just leafia

[Frostwolf103]

@Leafia

Just recieved a message from someone. It’s
obvious to me who it’s from but in the interests of avoiding anticlaim, I won’t reveal who sent it.

I see.

[Jarek]

Wait no yeah it’s the same one mentioned earlier nevermind

[Leafia]

So the person could be anticlaimed without it pointing to me as 100% wolf.

[Leafia]

It also doesn’t scream out wolf either. I’m just being set up to be the D2 misexe at this point.

[Frostwolf103]

@Chomps Hey you’re here? Marco.

[soweli]

ok but that’s a bad play & also depending on how the role & the anticlaim works you could just. anticlaim them anyways.

anyhow skimmed your ISO again and it’s still just null.

@Leafia

It also doesn’t scream out wolf either.

Yes but you said that you were towny??

@Leafia

I’m just being set up to be the D2 misexe at this point.

Arguable? I feel like there’s people who better fit that spot & I don’t think pandora or willow are likely wolfs at this poitn

[Jarek]

You said something about not caring about being anti-claimed earlier so I want to posit something to you, essentially I’m asking if you’re okay with being the anti-claim “bait” to see what the anti-claim is

[pandora]

@Jarek

You said something about not caring about being anti-claimed earlier so I want to posit something to you, essentially I’m asking if you’re okay with being the anti-claim “bait” to see what the anti-claim is

what would this entail?

[Chomps]

okay here you go

Summary

@Starboy

Hello everyone

@Host_Account_1

SMILEY reveals its own role!

(rolecard)

Does this site’s definition of Non-bastard include falsely revealed information? If it does we can essientally ignore smiley. If it’s not controlled by any players I see no motivation one way or the other to allow it to win. If we happen to sweep the mafia team fast enough then horary, we did what we aimed to anyways.

@Marluna

VOTE: Jarek

Did you reead the rest of the Neutral’s abilities?
it’s pretty pro-town.

I find it interesting, and a little wolfy, that Marluna would first point out that the neutral has town sided abilities as a reason not to kill it, rather than the more obvious (atleast to myself) reason that its simply a wasted kill. Even if it had no abilities I would not want to kill it instead of a potiental suspect.

@Jarek

Yeah my vote isn’t a serious one unless there’s evidence later to prove that they have hidden ulterior motives that indicate they are in fact evil

This makes sense to me.

@Leafia

Also, by D2, a player besides myself will know exactly what my ability is and yes I do get to pick who it is. I’ll be picking the villageriest player alive. That’s all I dare say about my ability for now.

I’m willing to skip evaluating Leafia until this occurs. I don’t think villagers will get much benefit from any form of disscussing this, letting Leafia pick on their own gives us the most insight into their alignment.

@ElizaThePsycho

bitch you’ve made 10 that is WELL into read territory

I appriciate Willow effectively skipping RVS here, Jarek aswell gave town something to talk about and got the game going, and I think it is slightly town aligning for the both of them.

@Chomps

yeaa but where’s the fun of not putting pressure anywhere

Did chomps intend a naked vote to be pressure? Pressure doesn’t just come from votes existing in space all alone, they need something more to go with it.

@Chomps

VOTE: Canping

they quickly move it but it seems odd to call it pressure still.

@Rhea

(big long wall post)

I notice that almost everything Rhea points out, they call “villagery” with the small exception of the first 2 posts and some neutral thoughts on Marluna. I found it difficult to get much of anything from these early posts, especially anything that would direct me to vote in a paticular direction, so its reassuring to see someone else on the same page.

@Rhea

I am preparing an opening post, but I would like to separate out any questions I find myself having so that they do not get lost.

Also I’m stealing this idea

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@Starboy

@soweli

i think? I don’t know i might be placebo’ing it and also I did read the whole thread but don’t think i gained anything from it; i do have another person i’m considering voting (ooh spooky!!!)

What do you mean by you “might be placebo’ing”? I have some other thoughts on this post noted down but I would like clarification first, posting them would spoil the read

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@Starboy

@Leafia

All in all, I’m getting villagery vibes from Rhea right now. Townlean.

Is there any reason for this beyond “Vibes”? I personally agreed with their view of threadstate

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@Starboy

@Marluna

Well.

It would be literally a wasted kill for mafia as well. It (Killing a neutral benign on itself) doesn’t help them getting closer to the victory. (Unless it becomes a kingmaker for the opposition, but this neutral specifically can’t even do that.) So I didn’t feel a reason to pinpoint someone as scummy simply for that reason.

It kills itself on Day 4

@Host_Account_1

At the end of Day 4, you will die.

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@Starboy

While I personally immediately pinned it as a joke, I don’t think anyone is wrong for not having realized it.

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@Starboy

Perhaps I’m too used to mountainous, but I would be nearly equally suspicious if someone attempted to seriously suggest voting “Sleep” as “Smiley”

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@Starboy

Does this post seem “Entitled townie”-ish to anyone else?

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@Starboy

@Canping

i wanted them to lowkey point it out, those 3 posts were intentionally mentioned

I don’t think “I know I am town” is a read that comes off great if made about yourself

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@Starboy

@Frostwolf103

The general thumb is that 4 mafia players on 15 player setup is rough and unbalanced.

If the neutral doesn’t need to be killed, then adding it would be the same as just adding more abilities onto a villager no?

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@Starboy

I don’t see how someone can make a read of themselves being an entitlted villager. If someone is aware of how they’re coming off then I wouldn’t put any stock into it.

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[quote=“Starboy, post:228, topic:11132, full:true”]

@soweli

@Starboy

What do you mean by you “might be placebo’ing”? I have some other thoughts on this post noted down but I would like clarification first, posting them would spoil the read
[/quote]

It means my memory of the event was poor; the only part i distinctly remember was thinking that my reasoning was roughly “i scrolled up and picked the first person who [not sure what my specific criteria was but likely ‘looks bad’” but I don’t know if i actually had any significant reaction towards canping’s post and could have only believed that because in retrospect I was looking for “why did i specifically vote canping over anybody else”

Also I’m not really a big fan of canping’s later postss i stay winning

@Canping

why are some of you nitpicking that it certainly isnt AI only 1 or 2 posts out of my other posts? this is just clutching on straws

too defenseive, ez.

Initially I’d marked this post down as too defensive, but as I was typing this I realized that it’s quite literally a defense, I asked them to explain themselves. I don’t hate it looking at that lens but it still feels a bit weird, notably the second quote tacked onto the end.

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@Starboy

@Frostwolf103

So yeah, what’s the pressure bro

This has been true most of the thread, multiple votes placed that don’t do anything. Your votes need a push/reasoning behind them to be worth placing.

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@Starboy

Like most of these points from Jarek,

@Jarek

I appreciate the ideal that we’d like to move on from the smiley discussion however there have been no more attempts to discuss much else, from you or really nobody else. Possibly scummy, situationally depending on how Kiiruma is percieving how the discussion went or more importantly how kiiruma believes certain players were being percieved - to the point he’d have to step in and ask for people to “look elsewhere”. Hm…

but this reads like a bit of a stretch to me. The town, as Jarek had said, had more or less moved on. I find it unlikely that Kiiruma would pop into thread, and attempt to divert away from an already dying disscussion. If anything I think, if Kiiruma is attempting to direct us, would be directing us back onto the disscussion.

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@Starboy

@Jarek

Because they haven’t. It’s been 4~ Hours since their last post and they haven’t actually branched off into another topic. They’ve advocated for shutting down something generating content within the thread and haven’t provided a reason to go anywhere else. If the town decided to listen to kiiruma we would be stagnant and doing not much of anything.

Yeah I’m listening. VOTE: Kiiruma

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@Starboy

@soweli

I never claimed my reasons were good to be quite honest with you my attatchment to the read is only in salvaging its conclusion posthumously because you’ve been acting overly defensive about it (I mean your posts outside of that subject have been ~fine and i would unvote if you asked nicely; only reason i’m still voting you is because i don’t have a better option (Marluna doesn’t count for “reasons” (read ‘reasons’ as “weird strategy purposes”)

This confirms my previous feel that the defensiveness of the read came from being asked directly to justify it. If soweli isn’t defending their read on its own merit, I actually think the way they’re trying to find something from what we had at the time somewhat towny.

Also, not game related, but this is their second post now to use parenthesis and not close them properly! This is irrationally annoying me even though it does not matter even in the slightest.

@soweli

(I mean your posts outside of that subject have been ~fine and i would unvote if you asked nicely; only reason i’m still voting you is because i don’t have a better option (Marluna doesn’t count for “reasons” (read ‘reasons’ as “weird strategy purposes”)

))

@soweli

“i scrolled up and picked the first person who [not sure what my specific criteria was but likely ‘looks bad’”

]

closed them for you

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@Starboy

@Canping

i see what you mean, but its not only their response and what i did to just to read them as town. i overally think they are lt, i am just saying i liked their response.

I’m not sure we’re on the same page. I had said that Marluna seemed like an entitled town, and you said you wanted to hear them say it, but I don’t think them saying that read would have helped

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@Starboy

@Canping

i wanted them to lowkey point it out, those 3 posts were intentionally mentioned

unless this post was saying that you wanted Marluna to point something other than the read I had just made out.

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@Starboy

oh sorry, I got confused because the post was a reply to my message, so I thought they were refering to “it” as being my message.

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@Starboy

@Jarek

A stretch aww come on

@Jarek

Meh to be fair maybe you’re right but damn do I want to be convinced someone is evil for absolutely no other reason other than the vindication that I’m right

I don’t think its inheriently wrong to think someone is evil as a bit of a stretch, I just worry that if we start then applying potiental agendas to their posts, we risk taking the game very off rails.

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@Starboy

I would even argue that early on we have to stretch to find wolves. We simply do not have enough to work with to be certain.

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@Starboy

@Rhea

This seems like an odd question to ask to me. I am not sure what would lead Starboy to this thought immediately.

You were one of the people I had an actual reason to read, so just boiling down your slot to “vibes” felt like off, like there should be more reasons to have a read.

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@Starboy

So you acknowledge that you hadn’t been posting, but think its opportunistic for people to vote you? Feels like there’s a weird disconnect there

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@Starboy

Isn’t pressure the #1 way to get people to start making content? I’d much rather you, if town, get votes and then do something AI when you get here, than to not and not feels any need to do so.

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@Starboy

and I don’t think I need to elaborate why voting you is good if you aren’t town lol

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@Starboy

@Leafia

How is that wolfy? I think it’s mildly villagery myself.

Seems like its mostly just a difference in preference between Mech and Socials. I view executing a known Neutral as basically a sleep vote, which seems more obviously bad to me no matter what abilities they might have.

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@Starboy

@Leafia

Seems like Kiiruma is a bit nervous and went into unnecessary explaining to me.

Do you think this is town or wolf indicative for them?

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@Starboy

@Rhea

I’d like to challenge everybody to put out a read list, even if you feel you do not have the ability to give an opinion on every player and even if it does not fully reflect the complexities of your thoughts right now. Feel free to skip the players you do not feel you can place.

Chomps - lean town
Frostwolf - no read
Willow - null-town
Leafia - lean town
Jarek - lean town
Rhea - town
pandora - null-wolf
Canping - null-town
Kiiruma - null-wolf
Marluna - lean town
childe - 0 poster
soweli - lean-town
Creature - basically 0 posting, though its a bit odd that they defended themselves saying they were busy and then proceded to not post. NAI
Heiter - Mostly Null, but if I had to pick one, null-wolf, mostly off of thread consensus
Smiley - Neutral

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@Starboy

@Frostwolf103

How do you come to conclusion you have no read on me, yet this interaction should at least tell you something

I simply don’t think your posts contain much of anything. For the readlist I went through the player list, and for anyone who had made posts that stood out enough for me to remember, I wrote what I’d felt. For everyone else (you fell into this list) I went and ISO’d you, and in your case none of your posts stood out enough to put you one way or the other

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@Starboy

@Frostwolf103

Honestly he wouldn’t keep the vote on Kiiruma now he is getting out of comfort zone,

My vote is quite literally on Kiiruma, what are you talking about?

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@Starboy

@Kiiruma

And that is the problem

Surely you aren’t suggesting that its wolfy to be voting you?

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@Starboy

@Kiiruma

Of course I am not. I am merely stating that the problem according to Frost is that you do have your vote on me despite it being a disconnect from your original reasoning for being on the wagon.

I don’t understand what you, or they are saying.

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@Starboy

Just because they quoted someone else disagreeing doesn’t mean I ever changed my mind

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@Starboy

Kiiruma spent many of their early posts repeating that they didn’t want to talk about mech, and that we should stop talking about it, but then half of their posts were about mech, or about their earlier posts

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@Starboy

@Kiiruma

So if I may make a suggestion how about we just… move on from all that now and ignore it for the moment?

@Kiiruma

I hate to have to step aside from mechanics, but the more that we talk about our own mechanics, the more of a risk we are at to trigger a form of anticlaim.

And yet you kept saying you didn’t want to talk about mechanics.

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@Starboy

I just quoted 2 posts where they kept saying they didn’t want to focus on mech. I’m not going to blame anyone for not talking about mech, I don’t paticularly excel in Mech myself so I rarely focus on it, but actively doing the thing you’re saying not to is certainly odd.

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@Starboy

@Kiiruma

I’ll make one statement though, I’m doubting Smiley is the only neut. As it’d feel weird if Smiley was and it’s like ‘Yeah we’ll have 1 neut and it’ll be super public and helpful’.

@Kiiruma

It’s certainly a possibility.

I’d think it’s either an assigned ability or a factional based ability.
Of course this is just contemplation but

@Kiiruma

I don’t think Zone would overlook it, I think it might be something on purpose idk

is this not mech disscussion

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@Starboy

those were after my vote

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@Starboy

I can’t vote based on what someone will do in the future

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@Starboy

@Kiiruma

I’d recommend against stating too much there because we don’t know how loose anticlaim will be.

this is their literal next post after saying to stop talking about mech

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@Starboy

@Marluna

What do you expect people to answer for mech posts?

if you’re asking town to stop talking about mech, you should probably just talk about something else

@Marluna

(Also I’m pretty sure Kii wants avoid mechtalk cuz of the possible anti-claim, tell me, how any of these posts give any chance to give mafia for the anti-claim.)

if you’re worried about town spilling the beans, continuing to talk about the potientally dangerous subject, in any way seems like a bad idea.

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@Starboy

Good Morning Town

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@Starboy

Skimmed to catch up, while I don’t like how creature is responding to Rhea, it feels like the two of them are just using “concern” differently, with creature taking it as a sign of alignment and Rhea not. I don’t think its too AI for eithier of them

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@Starboy

@Leafia

I’ll also say this. The most likely scenario is that Kiiruma and Starboy are the same alignment. Not impossible that they’re of differant alignments, but not very likely I feel.

What makes you say that? If you SR us individually thats one thing, but if one of us is town, what makes you think the other would be town too?

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[quote=“Starboy, post:473, topic:11132, full:true”]
Why would you be disappointed in

copypaste cut half of it that’s so evil :(

[Leafia]

@soweli

ok but that’s a bad play & also depending on how the role & the anticlaim works you could just. anticlaim them anyways.

It would be obvious I was a wolf then and they haven’t been anticlaimed, now have they? Also, not everyone makes smart choices all the time.

@soweli

Arguable? I feel like there’s people who better fit that spot & I don’t think pandora or willow are likely wolfs at this poitn

I have three votes making me the top wagin and it grew too fast to be anything but a planned misexe and I’d be shocked if Pandora is a villager at this point.

@pandora

my wagon is weird and my reaction to it could not be anything but pure. if i was a wolf my team didn’t feel threatened at all by becoming the aecond biggest wagon out of nowhere

Something like this never comes from a villager.