“Causing it”
Bro the only execution I agreed with was Eliza and that was a barley.
I have had zero control, if I had control, town wins.
Mollyyyyy you’re the reasonable one in this thread help me out here
Last time I made this request of you, it went perfectly well and there were no problems 
I want to be very clear that the following has been carefully selected to be nice:
You will lucky if your solve is even 1/3 – which, to be clear, I do think is possible. I want to be very clear that I’m saying lucky to emphasize the fact that it is the result of luck, because God knows that with the process you’ve been using (‘sheeping your Arete read’ = town, ‘not blindly sleeping the read’ = scum) you’d be lucky to catch even one wolf.
You are, apparently, in your thirties, with nearly a decade of experience in this game, and incapable of understanding the concept that if you start out wrong about something, and then locktown everyone who agrees with you, this is likely to result in you being even more wrong, and that if you then say ‘well all the people who agree with me are town, so therefore my initial read was correct’ this does not, in fact, make you any more correct than you started. The cool thing about this sentence is that it’s not an insult, it’s literally just a statement of fact.
I try really hard to, as much as possible, blame myself for any loss, because internalizing things as much as possible might not be healthy for me but it’s healthier for the general site environment, and apparently your play is somewhere past the breaking point where I stop being capable of just assigning fault to myself.
I genuinely do not think I know anyone who’s as committed to the cause of believing false things (in full generality, not just in this game or even just in Mafia in general) as you.
And you don’t even have enough courage in your convictions to be willing to admit that your intuition isn’t nearly as good as you’ve convinced yourself it is if you’re wrong.
like, the interactions I had with May are just kinda… not w/w and also not super non w/w either
this reminds me of the time Proph scumcased me for being w/w with Wisp (flipped scum) because we never directly talked to each other (because we weren’t online at the same time) and made a big case about it and everyone was like “yeah, lemon is scum with Wisp 
”
wheeee I’m home
I went through the thread searching for May mentions of other people to see if the ‘May mentions Lemon less’ thing is real
my methodology was that I literally just searched this thread for @ May plus each name/shortened name (e.g. Lemon rather than Lemonfairy, which brings up results for both) and then counted – this probably missed a few replies, or uses of only pronouns no name, but it should be Close Enough
I did my best to discount mentions of dead people from after they died but I might’ve missed a couple
dead people
Magnus - 19
Neon - 6
Eliza - 12
Aro - 13
Otter - 10
Aleph - 4 + Vul - 1 = 5
alive people
Arctic - 28
Arete - 26
Jarek - 16
Lemon - 11
Molly - 9
Phraze - 3 + Marl - 5 = 8
Prisma - 21
Zorvo - 36
overall, it looks like May did mention Lemonfairy noticeably less than other comparable players (at least among the alive players), but it wasn’t nearly as extreme as I had thought (e.g. she mentions Molly even less). However, I think it’s notable that in the other cases, there was something else going on, like ‘being the night 1 nightkill’ or ‘subbing in for a slanker with 12 posts’ or ‘having 72 posts total on day 4.’ In contrast, Lemonfairy has 256 posts, which makes the low number of mentions really weird in context.
also I wanted to make sure I wasn’t just handwaving things as ‘well there SHOULD be more mentions since Lemon POSTED more’ so I made a graph of total mentions vs. total posts (subs were rolled together with posts + mentions added). the line is the “trendline” for the graph, the dot that I circled in red is Lemon (the other three dots below the line are Vulgardaleph, Neon, and Marlphraze)
2 Likes
2 Likes
wolves try to sound like they believe their posts challenge 2k22 (difficulty level: impossible)
[the confidence level implied by the phrasing is higher than my actual confidence but this post did make me literally make the 
expression IRL]
lol
well i feel like i’ve given you a perfectly good place to start (“who do you think is good or bad?”) if you want to work with anyone at all, i’m kinda stumped on how else i could help you out here
and uh
maybe this is more obvious to you than me but why me of all people
I moved Arete up b/c I was liking some of their posts while interacting with them at the time
I also townread them SOD today when they came into today with the whole “vote me out while working with me under the assumption that I’m town today or never vote me out” and I’m weak to that kind of ATE and I was expecting a sheepable solve from them if they were town but they come up with something like Arctic/May/Lemon and Arctic/May/Prisma 
the second post was also some time after I did my first ISO on May (I can’t remember if I townleaned May after my first ISO or not) and the day before, May plopped an unexplained vote on me and dipped so yeah, I was scumreading May then
but then I re-evaluated because I felt I had been too focused on Arete being scum this time so I went and looked into other people’s ISO’s instead of digging through Arete’s and possibly confbiasing myself further but I managed to reasonably find the people I ISO’d as towns (May being one of them)
The request was half-joking, I just… don’t know who to believe, and you’re kinda separated from all the arguments and accusations going on right now - I know what Zorvo’d say if I asked, I know what Arete would say, I know what Arctic would say, they’re all part of the web of accusations; you’re more of a neutral (ish) observer, and I’d like to hear more of your perspective.
it’s like you scumread Arctic and idk I don’t remember if Arctic was scumreading you or not but I think they’re not scumreading you anymore but you’re both pushing me and trying to build some kind of case based on me being w/w with May
or at least that is what it feels like to me
@Zorvo, if you think the scumteam is Arctic/Arete/Prisma, what do you think their mindset is? What is their goal right now, what executions do they hope for today and tomorrow, do you think they’re planning to bus, distance, use their remaining credibility to get two misvotes, what’s the deal?
reevaluation
imo I’ve been pretty clear on which specific post changed my mind on Arctic, you trying to feign ignorance is not really helping your case regardless of your alignment
the thing that made me think you and May are likely to be partnered is just … reading the posts Arctic quoted, thinking ‘what’s going on here from a town perspective, what’s going on here from a wolf-interacting-with-town perspective, what’s going on here from a wolf-interacting-with-wolf perspective’ and
the interactions were Not Great.
fmpov you coming in to me + Arctic casing you as aligned with May and being like ‘haha guys Arete and Arctic are totally openwolfing’ feels pretty transparently like an attempt to try to discredit us because we’re right
well, i was considering voting you lol
if prisma becomes viable again i might go there. i’m really not sold on those seppuku posts being towny, that’s a kind of post that younger me misread a lot.
i wavered on lemon for a moment just because it was apparently so obvious to arctic and arete that they communicated the whole thing non-verbally? and i realized i was talking about the lemon case a bit like how i do when i accidentally tie myself to wolves. but i just… am not convinced by their points and am convinced by my points.
Also, for the record, everything I do is artificial. I am a liar forever and ever and this will never change
Whyyyyy does everything slip out of my head as it does. Why must I suffer in such a manner. I can’t solidly make a single read because I can’t ever… find a bottleneck, the wolves could be doing anything, the nightkills have been so generic and the executions to this date so… bad (in large part my fault) that I don’t understand their mindset and I don’t get the Tone of this game. They could be doing literally anything. I guess I’m used to having a flipped wolf, but I’ve solved games without one before… ughoughoughuhhhh
Which one of you fucks am I misclearing speak up
for me the thing (which I did use words to communicate!) that I find the most compelling about Lemon, even more than anything about progression, or number of interactions, or anything, is the first Iso they made on May
here's the whole thing
like, here are the comments they actually make on May (colors added by me):
but they conclude with:
which is just, not consistent at all with the actual things they said about May? like the best things they could come up with without hedging were like “this is fine,” most of their townpoints-comments were marked with hedges or qualifiers or “but they could fake this as scum”! none of that makes sense with a conclusion where someone is a “comfortable TR”!
arguably this can just be an argument for Lemon!wolf but the interactions the other way are also kinda 