Bland & Flavorless Mountainous 15er - Mafia Winnered

[Zorvo]

[Zorvo]

SPAM!

[Host_Account_4]

Magnus (3): Arctic, otterpopd, Prisma101
Arete (3): Magnus, Phraze, Zorvo
otterpopd (2): mollylikesorigami, Neon
Prisma101 (1): ElizaThePsycho
Zorvo (1): Jarek
ElizaThePsycho (1): Arete
No-execution (1): Aleph
Jarek (1): May

Not Voting (2): Arogame123, Lemonfairy

[Arete]

can you please try to give like

even just a sentence each about what about the thread state/meta/reactions/actions make you think he’s town

I don’t need a wallpost

[Magnus]

I still have D&D, so I’ll have to type sparsely.

[Prisma101]

@ElizaThePsycho can you give a reason on how im “obviously a wolf”

[Arctic]

I lost the section on arete, and because I’m trying to remember what I wrote it’s going to sound a lot worse than before, but it’s quite an important part so I’ll try again

Read the quotes around this part of the thread

@Magnus

…Okay, that looks suspicious. I already said w!Prisma wouldn’t want to vote their partners early on, and here Prisma goes out of their way to avoid acknowledging your case on Arete, voting Otter for an unrelated reason.

@Zorvo

Prisma and Arete may try voting each other later for distancing or even bussing, don’t not expect it, it can definitely happen and doesn’t clear either of the two upon a wolf flip.

@Magnus

Through an unbiased lens, it could indicate Prisma doesn’t want to interact with you for whatever reason as well. So there’s a potential partnership there, or wolves telling them not to go up against Zorvo, or just not wanting to read your wallposts.

@Zorvo

@Magnus

Prisma goes out of their way to avoid acknowledging your case on Arete, voting Otter for an unrelated reason.

Vote Arete.

@Magnus

Question: does my tendency to not vote early-game on people I find suspicious, and only for pressure cases I don’t believe in bother you, the way it does a few other players?

For the record, that was me typing up a refusal before looking at the vc. I’ll bite so you aren’t the leading wagon. We’re already partnered, there’s no point distancing publicly.
VOTE: Arete

the vote on arete makes no sense here given that magnus had given reasons to townread arete and no reasons to scumread prisma up to this point. they later gave the justification that villagers can test the waters of reads they don’t believe in, which i think is fine, except when you consider that magnus has not made any reads from this. he hasn’t tried to evaluate either of mine or arete’s response to him voting on a wagon he didn’t believe in, not once. therefore i think it’s pretty clear that this was a poor excuse given in order to justify a bad vote on arete for the purposes of his agenda: spurring on (a very incorrect) seth

another point is that the justification he gives in the same post as the vote post (“to make seth not the leading wagon”) contradicts both the idea that he was just voting arete to entertain seth’s reads AND his claim that he “cares little for early game wagons”

it feels obvious to me that his vote on arete had an agenda here

[Arete]

@Lemonfairy

@Arete

feel free to ask for more explanation on any of these

probably
Magnus/Eliza (unless you’ve already explained somewhere before and I just didn’t see it)

Eliza:

@Arete

• large parts of her early posting were “commentary mode,” like she was more like an uninvested observer than like a player
• later posting has been (afaict) overrepresenting her confidence significantly for unclear reasons (although this can be a valid strategy Eliza is not a player who I normally expect to do this as town)

Magnus:

• he made an argument that made no sense for Arctic being scum (regardless of Arctic’s actual alignment), when I pressed him on it he repeatedly dug in his heels before finally retreating to ‘actually I was just doing it for reactions’ – but at a point where it felt more like an excuse
• several of his posts (I quoted a couple in my catchup) felt like bad faith/trying to just make people look bad rather than solve their alignment
• (this is more of a personal reason and idk if it’s actually that strong) his explanation for voting me earlier even though he thought I was >rand town was that he wanted to have more wagons during the day for info and he could just move his vote later to someone he actually suspected, but we’re now less than an hour from EoD and (despite claiming to think I’m >rand town!) he still has not moved his vote. I think a villager who wanted to kill wolves would be, you know, voting someone they think is a wolf.

[Arogame123]

Summary

@Magnus

I’ll do my best to read Zorvo during this one day before I die, since clearly the power players are all Mafia.
For the record: if someone universally townread and active lasts three days without catching a wolf, kill them and see what happens.

Hmmm, idk, there is something about this post where I am not sure if Magnus actually believed that “all power players are mafia” based on the sentiment from the early active players on his slot. But I also think the way he was “attempting to give one read on a slot before he dies” gives off the impression where he feels like he’ll die early. So to those who play with Magnus, how often does he tend to die early as mafia vs town? And @Magnus is there a reason you felt like you’d die this early on in the game?

[quote=“Magnus, post:107, topic:3686”]
Blitz read on Zorvo before I go:

Zorvo

@Zorvo

Hard Claiming Alignment Cop

@Zorvo

Got an Arsonist check on Magnus

Clearly missing around, names me out of nowhere.

[quote=“Zorvo, post:40, topic:3686”]

@Arctic

VOTE: May

you are being put in the naughty chair. whether you are mafia or were trying to reach for that read on eliza in an honest attempt to get the game going is tbd
[/quote]

Is this Potential Distancing I see?

Paranoia? Zorvo’s called out early interactions as being more meaningful than they appear as Town.

@Zorvo

I know I’m not a wolf, which means Arete/Arctic/Neon/May can contain all wolves.

Which scares me.

Did this weird grouping as Town before.

@Zorvo

Yes I’m wolf with Magnus

@Zorvo

It’s not like he is the first person I see in thread and I also happen to do stuff like this with him in other games.

Totally not.

Gotta be W/W.

Can confirm we’ve joked, but I hadn’t been active in the thread before then. You clearly picked me out in full awareness of what you were doing.

@Zorvo

@ElizaThePsycho

why does neon scares you
[/quote]

Power Player

I don’t see Neon as a power player, I see Neon as a strong social player. For the record.

@Zorvo

This isn’t over defensive, it’s logic.

For the record, given how passive Zorvo played the end of last game, this is exactly how he’d want to play as a wolf here. But he wouldn’t call me out as a joke if we were aligned. He’d try to distance and get credit if and when I flipped, or vice versa.

@Zorvo

Like I actually care what your think, your push on me is bad, from what I have seen from you nothing stands out, which is bad, this entire thing is bad.

Need to see how this evolves, and how I read Arete.

@Zorvo

Nah.

VOTE: Zorvo

Self-voting hurts your team irrespective of your alignment, and you said you were trying to improve a few games back. You haven’t self-voted in a while.
Zorvo didn’t self-vote last game, so he might be trying to mimic his earlier gameplay. FTR.

@Zorvo

Here I am at first planning to just type something basic like “Your VT has arrived” or some “I’m Town” shit but instead I seen Magnus in thread and decided hey fuck why don’t I start making a joke claim in a vanilla setup, surprised no one called me sus for fake claiming Cop in Vanilla Setup, but perhaps everyone’s aware it be joke.

I’m Town Two-Shot Targeting Jailkeeper. Twice per game, I can automatically jailkeep the Mafia killer.

@Zorvo

Why should you vote Arete?

Cause I told you to.

Why should you listen to me?
Cause I’m Town

How does that make you right on Arete?
Cause Chop Chop Method

Think self-confidence is rand>v for Zorvo.

@Zorvo

Arete is voting off of me because he just wanted to attempt to make a town look bad.

Ima show everyone why he’s not only the badder one but also the wolf.

I don’t think this is convincing on its own. I’ll look at everything once I’m home.

@Zorvo

There is also a “wolf” that is going to continue to attract control and make town look bad and attempt for a wolf clean sweep.

Please analyse nightkills, everyone.
“Everyone townreads this person but they’ve survived six days straight… gee.”

Result: Nulltown, needs more data

Later follows it up with a read on Zorvo which aligns with his motives. The read on Zorvo seems to be mixed with some “coaching” which I feel like is not w/w in this case (Zorvo/Magnus not w/w) and ending with a “null town” makes sense from the reasons he was giving from his own personal meta with Zorvo. Also seems to be throwing in some jokes as well which seems rand >v.

@Magnus

You won’t be killed by Mafia, not on your first game.
It won’t happen.

Hmm, this did seem kinda weird given Magnus had no thoughts on Prisma at the time and said “mafia won’t kill you” which could be seen as potential tmi of Prisma being town if Magnus is mafia.

@Magnus

Comedic answer first:

I’m Mafia.

Serious answer:
This is your first game, and you’re still trying to get into the swing of things. Not to be blunt, but everyone else in this game has more experience and would therefore make for a better nightkill

So goes onto to explain later based on “optimal NK.” I might get the answer later but @Magnus, did you town read Prisma or were you just discussing about in the world/hypothetical where Prisma is town.

@Magnus

Focusing on one particular player…

Molly: rand>v.

Ok this specific read seems kinda townie for Magnus since he used that exact same justification on Zorvo and seems to be consistent with his reasoning/way he is giving his town reads on certain players.

@Magnus

I’m playing a bit. And now I have to stick with it, or else I’ll be nightkilled N1 in every world.
This way, paranoid evils might go “hey, let’s keep them alive. Maybe they’ll be executed.”

This is kinda of a townie thought in processing about the thought of being NK lol but I disagree with the ideology of it. And it’s not like he is utilizing this idea of “not being townie” to cover up his “scumminess” since I don’t really see that in Magnus’s play so far tbh.

@Magnus

Given it’s Mountainous, it’s usually ideal to execute as often as possible, especially early on. Rather than targeting wolves, you want infoflips. Then again, talking about executing right now is a bit bleh, but…
No, I won’t vote. Nevermind.

@Magnus

Given it’s Mountainous, it’s usually ideal to execute as often as possible, especially early on. Rather than targeting wolves, you want infoflips. Then again, talking about executing right now is a bit bleh, but…
No, I won’t vote. Nevermind.

Had initially found one of Jarek’s posts unnatural and then didn’t seem to want to vote based on agreeing with Jarek’s idea of “info flipping” and wanting to always vote and not to sleep. Seemed to lose less interest in voting based on agreeing with their idea/approach of play. But I will say @Magnus, when you say rather than “targeting wolves” you want “info flips,” wouldn’t you want to kill a wolf if you find one regardless of the day/situation?

@Magnus

Who says I distrust you? Is there a reason to distrust you? You can read responses based on your lack of a vote just as much as, if not more than, your sole vote would actually garner.

On a side note, I do like Jarek’s pressure on Magnus that he places here which makes me feel better about my tr on his slot, but I do empathize with Magnus’s response here and don’t think it’s inherently scummy and lines up with how he was feeling on Jarek initially. Didn’t seem to have a “high confident sr there” and seemed to analyze their responses/other posts.

@Magnus

I also know you liked playing with me. Glad to know there’s someone who doesn’t find me insufferable.

Wholesome convo lol and also rand >v but very slight. Don’t think mafia like to think they “are fun to play with” when they are the bad guys but it’s a very light read lol.

@Magnus

I’m gonna try and channel my “powerwolf as town” mentality from last game, since that went so well. And the rest of you can just powertown or whatever.

Wouldn’t powerwolf as town be the same as powertown lol?

Also, I noticed in their reads list, they seemed to have some change of reads like with Molly and May a bit (though I am not sure if they were fully concrete there before).

I do find it odd tho that Magnus feels that Neon is in her wolf range while also admitting that he hasn’t read much of the game, giving off the impression that he has a read he isn’t confident in. And at the same time, he wants to “take over as town” but then not help to explain/elaborate on the tell on Neon if he wants to help “take over.” lol

@Magnus

For the record, the term “powerwolf” was fully intentional there, it isn’t a slip.

@Magnus

powerwolf as town

Hence the full quotation, rather than specifying “powertown”.

oh, I guess this answers the earlier thought and was a bit.

@Magnus

Would you believe me if I said that was a typo?
But really, what I did say and what I am saying are two different reads.

At first I construed Molly’s posts as solving. On reflection, Molly has only really commented or been helpful; derpclear Prisma, explains in a follow-up post; votes Otter, says they’re doing better… and nothing else. Really, it looks like Molly’s floating.

Seems to follow up on the change of Molly and also plays into it a bit with the joke and the explanation here is valid tbh. Seems to align with how they were thinking real time but upon “re-reading” seemed to come to a different conclusion based on their “commentary” of posting holistically. Don’t see much wrong here with the switch.

@Magnus

I can’t tell if this is sarcasm.

Anyway, through an independent lens, Prisma comes across as a struggling new player with healthy, albeit unjustified, paranoia and a tendency to ask questions. This comes across as rand>v in light of the alt statement and all that.

I do like their overall conclusion/approach to Prisma here and seemed reminiscent to how I was solving around Prisma more along the lines of “being natural.”

@Magnus

Prisma isn’t mentioned in this readlist, and was only mentioned in the previous post which didn’t really explain Arete’s thoughts on their slot? “Probably Town from stats , but not really Towny… but do I townread them or scumread them? ”. Ignoring a partner is something wolves might tend to do, but there’s no hard-and-fast rule and Arete very easily could’ve decided there wasn’t enough to read Prisma on.

I do like how Magnus points out a lack of a read from Arete on Prisma prior to this but it does seem like instead of attempting to see what it means for Arete’s AI, it seems more along the lines of Magnus attempting to form disassociations and who is not “partners with each other” which actually more lines up with his thought process of attempting to form “info lynches.” Magnus doesn’t seem agenda’y here to push Arete here but rather to attempt to solve based on possible associations in a way that comes off as one attempting to solve “the game overall.” Especially with how he was placing attention on Prisma’s slot prior to this read, it seems to check out.

@Magnus

…Okay, that looks suspicious. I already said w!Prisma wouldn’t want to vote their partners early on, and here Prisma goes out of their way to avoid acknowledging your case on Arete, voting Otter for an unrelated reason.

I do like this point out from Magnus which then ties up from his previous point at looking at possible associations centered around a slot he is attempting to solve. However, I do believe Prisma here was stating he doesn’t know “how to vote” and genuilly is confused on what was going on regardless of his AI and wasn’t focused on the case but was more focused on “not knowing how to vote.” It just seemed like Prisma didn’t read it and not that he was “trying to avoid it.”

@Magnus

Through an unbiased lens, it could indicate Prisma doesn’t want to interact with you for whatever reason as well. So there’s a potential partnership there, or wolves telling them not to go up against Zorvo, or just not wanting to read your wallposts.

And here Magnus follows up with possible thoughts on how I was thinking Prisma reacted initially and not knowing “how to vote” rather than just “not wanting to read the content.” This seems like a townie solving the game and attempting to look through multiple viewpoints, hence the empathizing that I liked initially.

@Magnus

For context, since my recent games I’ve made a habit of voting on cases I don’t believe, and not voting on people I suspect, because I hold no attachment to early wagons. I never specifically townread you, I just got the vibe you were both in a mutual V/V tunnelling spot for a minute there. And this isn’t theatre.

Voting you because Zorvo asked me to.

This is kinda of funny since Magnus mentioned he had a bad habit of voting on cases he doesn’t believe but then ended up voting Arete because Zorvo asked him to and didn’t seem to mention whether he agreed/disagreed with Zorvo’s case lol.

@Magnus

For the record, that was me typing up a refusal before looking at the vc. I’ll bite so you aren’t the leading wagon. We’re already partnered, there’s no point distancing publicly.

ok he did explain it and I scrolled up earlier and it does seem to make a bit sense based on his explanation of not wanting Zorvo to be the leading wagon, which made sense based on his read of Zorvo.

@Magnus

Rather than asserting himself, Arctic was propping up another player’s read, handing them the torch, getting May to broaden their read on Eliza. Having no indication of who is evil this early on, that could suggest Arctic’s setting May up to take the fall if Eliza dies later and flips Town.
(I don’t know everyone’s meta, but it’s a tell I’ve noticed a few times before in games, so I’m calling it out.)

I do think this thought process and analysis of it makes sense from Magnus’s perspective of why he viewed it wolfy from Arctic and checks out from how he was reading him initially as he started earlier in his reads list.

@Magnus

There’s still no more than one wolf in the Arete/Zorvo/May circle. They’re all individually towny, it’s just the gamestate.
Aleph doesn’t care what the Town thinks of her, which I think is Towny.
Arctic is still scummy, although his alignment may be predicated on Arete’s flip? And he’s not indisputably scummy, I just think he’s more likely wolf than most here.
Jarek rand>v.
Molly rand>w.
Tempted to townlean Eliza alongside Otter, but I’ll be yelled at.
Townlean Aro.
Neon’s falling into her wolfrange.
Nullread Prisma.

I’m missing two people, but I don’t know who.

I kinda like how this readslist lines up more with Magnus’s thoughts that he explained earlier especially with his view on Arctic and how he viewed that trio as he mentioned earlier. It seems to me that Magnus’s thought process and explanation of reads tend to line up overall with where he places his reads on the read list. It doesn’t seem agenda-y and Magnus has been pretty open with his thought process esp on Arete and Arctic.

@Magnus

Y’know what, that could explain why you dropped your read on Eliza. You said you agreed with Arete’s reasoning, but you never even responded to his case.

I think this realization from Magnus is townie and realizes where he may have been “misunderstanding” Arctic’s motives through questioning May about Eliza, and also pointed out that he had issues with Arctic never responding to the case that Arete had which I think is a “village mindset from Magnus.”

@Magnus

It’s what I thought was happening and that was the example I provided to push my town agenda.

This demonstrates Magnus’s thoughts and his perceptions based on Arctic’s posts and thus developed the sr he had on him. I do think Magnus’s explanation/justifications he made earlier make sense from his POV and I feel like he his getting pushed on/sr here but no “fully seeing the whole picture” despite quoting and noting specific instances that bothered him in a way that I can see how a “town could reach that conclusion.” It doesn’t seem like he was misrepresenting Arctic, rather he was pointing out the issues he had and was analzying Arctic’s intentions from what he saw. He even re-checked some of the stuff he had thought and realized certain parts where maybe he could have been wrong on.

@Magnus

I can say there’s not much of a reason to suspect you in these early stages of the game, but your defence on those few reasons against your person aren’t… fantastic. Not voting Arete because they were nice to you, and because you don’t have a reason to vote, but you also voted Otter earlier for a non-alignment indicative reason, right after Zorvo wrote a case on Arete and drew your attention to it.

Ok yea, I started skimming through and this identification of noticing a contradiction in Prisma’s voting is a very good look from Magnus and demonstrates his attention to detail. This is a very townie mindset and analyzing the intentions here and seeing how they differ from Prisma, especially with noting how he felt how Prisma danced around some slots earlier when he was analyzing him earlier.

Ok, as I went through Magnus’s ISO, I concluded that he is likely town tbh for several reasons.

Magnus seems to be focusing on certain players at first that he was more familiar with (Zorvo, Prisma, Neon) and attempting to ISO their slots to better understand and get a read on him.

He also seemed to form thoughts/reasonings on players that seem to align with his playstyle and how he approaches his reads in the game with the “info lynch” and all that.

His case on Artctic and his feelings around Prisma seem to come from a townie mindset through analyzing intentions and pointing out the specific issues he had. He also seemed to have semi-mid realizations where he felt like he could be misunderstanding which felt like a townie “oh, I could be wrong moment.”

Magnus’s attention to detail as well as joking seems very good and is a townie look for him and I feel like overall Magnus is getting pushed for some “contradictions” and lack of “fully understanding the picture” where I feel like is a bit unjust esp with how Magnus approached his reads and came to his conclusions. It did not feel agenda-y and he seemed to me like an open book with his approach to the game and through making reads. Is not fearful with his cases and is pointing out what he dislikes in what he sees.

Overall, I feel like Magnus is V and just a ml waiting to happen tbh.

I kind of word-saladed a bit but main thoughts are “focus/paying attention to detail”, “thought process are consistent with his approach to his reads”, and “seems to be having fun with his bit while not being agenda’yd in the way he forms his reads.”

[Arogame123]

Basically I am not a fan of the Magnus wagon lol

[Lemonfairy]

@Arete

although his reasons are entirely premised on Prisma being a wolf

??
I thought it was b/c he didn’t want Zorvo to be the top wagon or something

[Arogame123]

Bingo

[Zorvo]

@Arete

can you please try to give like

even just a sentence each about what about the thread state/meta/reactions/actions make you think he’s town

I don’t need a wallpost

Threadstate - how threads treatment has been towards him was dealt in a way that he isn’t wolf unless with low posters.
Meta - He is in his town meta here
Reaction - the way he has reacted didn’t feel fake and wolf trying to pocket.
Actions - I feel like they would have made didn’t move, along with voting wise if they were wolf.

[Arete]

no I mean, his reasons for picking me over any other wagon (there were several viable non-Zorvo wagons)

[Zorvo]

@Lemonfairy
@Arogame123

Now looking at things.
Opinions on Arete?

[Arogame123]

I haven’t really read too much on Arete and it kinda sucks because they are both competing wagons rn and I feel like Magnus is V and had a slight v on Arete in realtime to their approach/questioning which reminded me of them in semis.

But it sucks cause I know I don’t have much threadpull rn and I wish I had more knowledge within the gamestate to form a push elsewhere :/

[Arogame123]

I feel that Zorvo is town as well esp through looking at Magnus’s ISO and how he was reading Zorvo and from my earlier explanation on Zorvo’s push on Arete.

[Arete]

@Arogame123

while not being agenda’yd in the way he forms his reads.”

you’re going to need to explain this one more because I highly disagree (not even just about me, the ones where I noticed it most were his reads on people who aren’t me)

[Zorvo]

@Arogame123

slight v on Arete in realtime

Remember, regardless of alignment Arete is going to “act” Townie and provide good content.

[Arogame123]

what was wrong with his approach to Neon/Prisma/Arctic?