BOTC/BOTF Discussion Thread 2

@Wazza

I trust wazza to, but it’s much easier to paint magnus as sane tbrough propganda than wazza

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Remember folks propganda is good if it’s true

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Wow I’m just catching strays for multiple very fair reasons

Banshee is an alternate win condition for team good.

The Banshee feels most likely to be in the upcoming Tomb script. It has a very strong ability, with the drawback of having to be killed by the demon.

Not really.
Town still has only one execution…

Evil doesn’t lose just because the demon was nominated.

I think you are totally reasonable but you must understand it’s much easier to argue magnus is more reasonable with zero evidence to support it

no I 100% and totally understand I do the same thing regarding myself and Magnus

Miscellaneous Banshee rambling. (Wallpost)

The Banshee’s ability is threefold.

  1. Confirmed as the Banshee (if nightkilled). This isn’t quite so impactful; you’re dead, meaning you were a Demon candidate anyway, and you were more likely to be good anyhow (depending on the script). It’s helpful, but there are more dangerous forms of confirmation roles out there.
  2. You can nominate twice when dead. This is likely the most threatening power this role has, since you can effectively guarantee that town has until F3 to win even if all the evils stay alive.
  3. Voting twice. This hardly matters in F3 when all the dead players vote, which is what your power ultimately ensures; and it’s only ~nice if living good players make up the majority. Your own vote wouldn’t count for majority which means other dead good players effectively never need to dead vote, but while it’s consequential, it’s not game deciding.

On the other hand, you have no source of information; you can’t confirm anyone as not being the Demon, not even yourself in any special way unless there’s a Zombuul, Legion, etcetera on the script; and it’s likely to be an extremely common Demon bluff.

You can’t bring up droisoning as a counterargument against a role’s existence, because droisoning ruins every role. Alternate forms of killing works for this character, though.

All things considered, I do believe a Ravenkeeper/Farmer confirmed player in F3 would be scarier than a dead Banshee, to compare death activated roles.

The former is a softcleared Demon candidate, reducing the suspect pool down to 2 players. The latter wasn’t a Demon candidate anyway.

Only one player can be executed in F3, and the more confident nomination is the one that’ll be executed anyway. (If the Banshee can nominate the same person, nevermind.)

Every dead good player is going to vote anyway, so the Banshee’s extra vote doesn’t matter.

F4/F5/F6, Banshee wins. Sure.

Why though?

It literally does nothing to endanger evil players in the early game.
(Unless the evil team wanted to sell the Banshee as a Vigor killed minion, which is to be honest an edgecase.)

It doesn’t give good players extra kill. (Town still only has 1 execution.)
It doesn’t give good players (usefull) information. (Also with the jinx, it doesn’t even confirm Vortox.)
It doesn’t give good players any protection.

Worst case, if it is paired with a Professor, but professor is a broken role on itself.

If paired with a Voudon, the Demon need to be extra careful with their kills. (but they should be careful in a voudon game anyway.)

(philo banshee + normal banshee + pixie banshee sounds hilarious.)

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It doesn’t use a dead token when voting
The two votes is scary on its own

Okay,I admit, both are good abilities. (Which a townsfolk should have.)

But I still don’t see why a N2 banshee death destroys the evil team.

You can just treat them as a strengthened alive player. They still don’t have any extra info/protection to defeat the evil team.

If your loss depends on the banshee’s plus two vote (who still couldn’t gain any info from their own ability) that only means your persuassion on the banshee was worse than the good team’s. (Which is not the Banshee’s fault.)
[Or if it still too scary, just bribe the ST to put an evil Thief in play, if you are the Demon.]

When town dominates the evil team, that two bonus votes won’t even matter in the grand scheme of things.

Clocktower balance updates are real

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  • 007c : new Jinx for Summoner / Pukka : “The Summoner may choose a player to become the Pukka on the 2nd night.”

Kind of strong but also Pukka getting something nice is not really a problem

  • 008 : new Jinxes for Pit-Hag / Goon, Pit-Hag / Cult Leader & Pit-Hag / Politician : “If the Pit-Hag turns an evil player into the Goon/Cult Leader/Politician, they can’t turn good due to their own ability.”

This is going to be a complete disaster if the Pit Hag changes a temporarily evil Outsider into another temporarily evil outsider, whom then can’t ever become good.

I mean you can also just turn the temporarily evil Outsider into

Any other character

And then they cannot turn good

yes but you can just infinitely chain them into being an outsider that can become temporarily evil with absolutely no penalty, it guarantees that once they turn evil they will stay evil
if you hag them into something else you at least get punished for it since they then can’t turn evil

It is decidedly not out of Pit-Hag’s normal range to convert anyone with no penalty

Fang Gu is literally on its home script