Flicker! FM - The Kidnapper Team Will Strike Again...

[sillykitty2366]

Gn

[Neon]

@Zorvo

Have you not been paying attention?

Lemon claimed Watch on Jarek Night 1 and Me Night 2 with no visits.

Cool so you and Lemon are W/W

[Neon]

@Zorvo

Neon did act similarly to how Achro!Wolf treated me when I called them out on being wolves with their partners, can’t remember where but it did happen.
I think Neon can be town but I also think they can be a wolf.

Neon can be anything at all times… kinda my specialty

[Host_Account_1]

Leafia (3): Jaiden, Phraze, May
Jaiden (3): Neon, Jarek, Leafia
May (2): Lemonfairy, Zorvo

Not Voting (3): Atlas, sillykitty2366, Memes

Speed boost.

[May]

@Leafia

@May

How does everyone think scum would interact with Zorvo tunneling SK last day phase with different combinations of their alignments? As in, what do you think scum say on the topic if:

1. Zorvo is town tunneling town SK
2. Zorvo is town tunneling maf SK
3. Zorvo is their maf buddy tunneling town SK
4. Zorvo is their maf buddy busing maf SK

1: They’d probably try giving him some help honestly.

2: Hmmm, they’d probably ignore it or soft defend SK. Not to the extent Neon is though.

3: Definitely ignore it.

4: Hmmm, probably the same as town Zorvo tunneling maf SK honestly.

Leafia’s responses to these questions feel like they’re incorrect - at the very least, they’re not what I would say, especially with meta on Zorvo that Leafia has more of than me. (for reference, 1. Distance from the argument while soft encouraging it, push a target outside of Zorvo/SK but one without much traction so that the argument can take center stage, 2. Definitely publicly consider it, go “interesting”, be wishy-washy at first, bring up meta on both of them, and see how receptive town is to the argument - if it looks safe to bus, do so 3. Roughly the same as the last one, 4. explode and die, but also it’s safe to argue against the 1v1 being productive, so do that if possible, jump on one wagon or the other if it looks like they’ll go through by EoD)

@Leafia

Mostly gut and with how solvy he has been. He isn’t usually like that when he’s a wolf. He seems to be putting in a lot of effort to solve the game. It just seems very villagery to me.

As someone who played Valorant… no, this didn’t feel different from Zorvo’s latest scumgame in the slightest, and so this read just doesn’t feel natural to me. I didn’t agree with it on D1 and I don’t agree with it now, I just reversed my read on who was the wolf in the situation.

@Leafia

I already look townie. Pretty much everyone but you has me at a townlean at the worst. If I was a wolf and you were a villager, it would’ve been extremely easy for me to get you misexed without looking at all bad for it when I tend to get into de as thtunnels at times as a villager. I’m practically famous for it.

Listen. I know “Leafia thought I townread her and started tunneling me as wolf because she was surprised by the ‘sudden turnaround’” isn’t like, a narrative that feeds successful reads, but it does feed my ego, and that’s what I really need more of here (this is a lie) (I need less)

@Leafia

Agreed. May’s vote is also sus pl ect. I was her highest townread yesterday too and Magnus, the flipped villager had me as one of his highest to wws nreads. No wonder the wolves killed him. So they could misexe me.

Calling out a kill as a frame/misexe job on yourself is a wolftell, I used it the last game I played and I’ll use it again.

@Leafia

May: Ironically, I think the way she voted for me was somewhat villagery considering she did say she wanted to pressure me to see how I reacted yesterday so it feels more like a vote on me to see how I react more than anything else.

@Leafia

Hmmm, okay. I’ll trust your judgement Zorvo. Besides, May usually dies N1 as a villager and she’s still alive D3 in this game? That is a bit suspicious admittedly. VOTE: May

@Leafia

I can almost guarantee that they killed Magnus so he couldn’t protect me then concocted the scheme of Memes pretending to give up to hopefully get me off his tail because I did say I’d make sure he was the exe if I was still alive so it was really the only option available to them. Then Neon jumped aboard my wagon too. Remember that before today Neon was hard townreading me too and now she’s practically done a 180 on her read on my slot. That never comes from a villager. As for May, my gut tells me that Zorvo is right about her, although I’m not as set on her being a wolf as I am about Neon and Memes. Zorvo also knows me very well too. He’s been with me nearly my entire FM career after all, so he knows me better than anyone. GTH, I’d say the fourth wolf is Jaiden, but that’s only a guess at this point.

@Leafia

Scumread

May: Mostly due to the stuff Zorvo pointed out as he made a pretty good case on May being a wolf. Not entirely sure he’s right though but I’m hopeful.

Talk about weird progression. Early in the day phase, Leafia was constantly shifting the blame of her read of me onto Zorvo, which feels extremely W/V to me. She just… didn’t make the call herself, claimed it was all Zorvo. Super Morbtainado of her, honestly.

@Leafia

@Neon A wolf in your position extending a peace offering seems really weird to me honestly, so I’m willing to entertain the possibility that I’m wrong about you being a wolf. If you want to prove that I’m wrong about it, please help us execute the caught wolf in May. Should she somehow flip town, I even offer to be the first to vote in lylo. In fact, I insist on it.

Not a caught wolf :|

[May]

I understand I blew it earlier - I wasn’t dedicating my full attention to the game, I was in class explaining to other people why they’re wrong (about math rather than mafia) and then multitasking while doing various other things. It didn’t make for the most convincing arguments, and neither did having an issue that prevented me from looking at a screen for long enough to correct your own typos, let alone ISO someone. But please consider that Leafia is like, extremely wolfy

[Leafia]

Fries have been eaten and I’m more interested in staying alive than I am in trying futiley to execute May right now. You saw how her wagon died down. I even said my switch to voting Jaiden was a self pres vote. It’s a bonus that I’m also slightly scumreading Jaiden too.

@Memes

But Leafia has been nothing but survivalist

Which is what I’m doing here too.

@May

Upon thinking about it further, I realized my metaread was… bad. Not good. Leafia took a backseat in the Morbtainado game because Achro was powerwolfing extremely hard, and without such a powerwolf around, obviously Leafia’s behavior would be different - in fact, having seen Achro’s effectiveness last game, she’d be more likely to try to manipulate the conversation as much as she could.

It wouldn’t necessarily be different, but I can at least see your train of thought here.

@May

Upon thinking about it further, I realized my metaread was… bad. Not good. Leafia took a backseat in the Morbtainado game because Achro was powerwolfing extremely hard, and without such a powerwolf around, obviously Leafia’s behavior would be different - in fact, having seen Achro’s effectiveness last game, she’d be more likely to try to manipulate the conversation as much as she could.

It was good and I haven’t even been as active this game as I have other games, but I’ve done what I can while here.

@May

After having written her off for a while because of that townread, I went back to look over her posts and spotted a lot of interaction with O kazo specifically - she initially TRed him because of his attention-grabbing post, but consistently left room for a vote in a way that felt super W/V to me.

I just wasn’t sure of the read at the time since i thg was very early in the game.

@May

I also wanted to rule out or prove several possibilities I had come up with this game, specifically being 1. that the DirectorHail flashwagon was started by a wolf Neon (or encouraged by a wolf someone else) or 2. that O kazo was deliberately taking both sides of a V/V Zorvo and SK fight (he had repeatedly commented that if one flipped town, the other had to be wolf), so I pushed an O kazo information execution to narrow down the possible worlds. Those worlds were both significantly reduced in possibility to me by the flip (which is why I discarded them and now SR Sillykitty and TR Neon, though I took a moment to fully accept those conclusions this morning. Inertia). Plus, you all have to admit his behavior was like, pretty scummy. Most of you voted for him.

This is honestly understandable. Starting to think I’ve been blinded by my tunnel on you.

@May

At the same time, I was sort of starting to townread Atlas because of their questions on my shitty readlist - the ever-present “you question or scumread me, I townread you” phenomenon. I was previously irritated with my own gameplay because it was too passive - I wasn’t starting wagons, I wasn’t doing reaction tests, I was just accepting what I got, and that wasn’t enough - so I just decided to… make my best possible case on Atlas and see what happened. Partially pushing a legitimate case on someone who I thought would be a useful flip, partially putting all my potential thoughts out there for trial by town square, partially testing for reactions to see if anyone acted W/W or W/V with Atlas.

This is pretty villagery actually.

@May

@Leafia

Yeah. That was rather scummy of Atlas admittedly. Now I want to see where this wagon takes us. VOTE: Atlas

If Atlas ends up flipping wolf, I’m almost willing to put SK into my towncore at this point.

She agrees with my case too quickly, but doesn’t hard commit to it, and also connects it with someone I believe to be her scumbuddy. At this point, Leafia still thinks I at least somewhat townread her, so I think she’d have the confidence to push agenda toward me like this.

Like I said. I wanted to see where a vote in Atlas took us. I didn’t scumread him much at that point. I wanted to see his reaction to a bit of pressure.

@May

@Leafia

Hmmm, that’s true enough. I’ll releive some of the pressure on you a bit more to make it easier to defend yourself if you’re actually a villager. UNVOTE

And then the immediate unvote. Note that SK was also on the wagon at this point. She just… didn’t appear to believe in the Atlas wagon at all, she verbally distanced herself from it by saying she wanted to “see where it takes us” and then immediately unvoted from it. I just… don’t see where this comes from as town.

I just wanted to make it a bit easier for him to defend himself by relieving some of the pressure on him since I had realized that maybe applying that pressure maybe wasn’t the best of ideas.

You’re right too. I never truly believed in the Atlas wagon. Which is why I mad eff the vote for pressure. In the hopes of getting a better read on Atlas. Then I realized that was maybe counterproductive and unvoted.

@May

@Leafia

This argument honestly makes sense to me.

As soon as a villager posts an Atlas V argument, she points to it and lifts it up. A bad wagon on your scumbuddy is the perfect opportunity to get a villager defending them - she didn’t even have to do any of hte work.

What can I say? The argument made sense to me. That isn’t AI.

@May

@Leafia

I’ll try but it’s so hard to tell who’s right sometimes. I do think the Atlas/Neon argument is tvt right now though.

Leafia immediately goes from voting for Atlas to arguing against their

Because that’s the conclusion that I had reached.

@May

@Leafia

You’re right and I’ll do that now.

Atlas just has a frustration to him that I’vd seen from t!Atlas so many times and it feels like he’s genuinely really annoyed at how we flipped Hail EoD1. I also feel that it’s done in a way that it’s difficult for wolves to fake snd he’s just looking for someone to blame for the execution.

As for Neon, I’ve been townreading her for the longest time now and this hasn’t changed thdt at all. She reminds me of myself too. The way she has trouble explaining herself just like I do despite being a villager, so I see a lot of t!Leaf in how she has been all of D2 so far.

Trouble explaining herself like I do? (Here’s where I’d put a pleading emoji if I had slightly less dignity).

It’s the truth.

@May

I just… all of these arguments were present before I started the Atlas wagon, there was no reason she should have… believed in it in the slightest, and I don’t see the benefit to joining it as a townie who TRed Atlas like that. Of course, I started it without full belief, but I get special cool guy privileges, and I was specifically just… not confident in my mild Atlas TR.

I had Atlas as maybe nullscum when I placed the vote on him and just wanted to get a better read on him.

@May

That’s where my initial Leafia SR came from. It was compounded by 1. the fact that I got an immediate, four-vote backlash to voting Leafia and disappearing, when I saw nothing of the sort with my similarly-unjustified O kazo vote and 2. how Leafia manipulated my arguments when we were Fighting and 3. the fact that nobody quickhammered either of us at any point in time and 4. Magnus’s V flip that would have served plenty well to make her look good that made me further SR her.

All that isn’t AI from me and you were doing the same to my arguments and ignoring them completely and pushing NAI things as scumslips.

@Jarek

The point is, I think there’s a good chance that Jaiden is a goon (why would the mafia be trying to bus their PR lol) and the thunderdome between May/Leafia has the PR mafia

I’m not so sure. Especially after May explained her read on me. I’m not even still sure she’sveven scum, as it sounds like a thought process that I can imagine a villager having. Also, if I was a wolf PR, I’d claim PR. Heck. Even if I was a wolf goon I’d claim PR. I always claim PR as scum.

@Jarek

I’m honestly leaning towards believing May and wanting Leafia to go over for this reason.

I wouldn’t say they’re defending Jaiden either, they just want Leafia first, if they really do think Leafia is scum that makes sense to me.

Please tell me you’re not serious here. As for an Atlas flip, I’m not entirely against it, although I’d prefer Jaiden.

@Zorvo

If Lying = Wolf
Then May and SillyKitty are both wolves.

I’m no longer that sure that May is a wolf honestly.

@Jarek

Okay but for real can we vote Jaiden I really just want to know if I was right.

Yeah. I’m now more confident in Jaiden being a hit than I am about May being a hit.

@sillykitty2366

If leafia flips town, is she wolf deliberately trying to set her partner up to be killed next and if leafia is wolf is she bussing both of us for little to no reason?

Leaning towards May being a blinded villager blinded by her tunnel on me right now honestly. I know how that can get.

@sillykitty2366

Okazo said he was Roleblocked I think

But like
I’m confused on how he knew unless he was on lol or something

If he was, it explains why Memes wasn’t killed last night. Mafia must have a roleblocker that blocked O.kazo N1 and Memes N2.

@May

BTW, question for everyone: what’s the follow-up on the Jaiden exe? If she’s town, who would you all go for, and if she’s mafia?

Too tired to think about my answers at the moment.

@May

Calling out a kill as a frame/misexe job on yourself is a wolftell, I used it the last game I played and I’ll use it again.

Not everyone has the same wolftells.

@May

Talk about weird progression. Early in the day phase, Leafia was constantly shifting the blame of her read of me onto Zorvo, which feels extremely W/V to me. She just… didn’t make the call herself, claimed it was all Zorvo. Super Morbtainado of her, honestly.

What’s so weird about it? He literally made a case on you that sounded pretty plausible to me.

@May

Not a caught wolf :|

You were acting super wolfy at the time with not explaining yourself.

@May

I understand I blew it earlier - I wasn’t dedicating my full attention to the game, I was in class explaining to other people why they’re wrong (about math rather than mafia) and then multitasking while doing various other things. It didn’t make for the most convincing arguments, and neither did having an issue that prevented me from looking at a screen for long enough to correct your own typos, let alone ISO someone. But please consider that Leafia is like, extremely wolfy

Please take off the tunnelvision glasses now. Looking wolfy isn’t AI for me.

[Neon]

I convinced myself while I was sleeping

VOTE: Zorvo

He’s refusing to give straight answers. His play reminds me of exactly what it was in Valo Wolf. I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s bussing a wolf now so he can lord it over us in lylo and use it to just outright win the game by alternatively there’s no reason to do that at this stage. He’s to reliant on Lemons PR claim and blindly follows it which is either bad form or TMI in fact I’m pretty convinced he knows Lemon well flip town and because of that Lemon is likely not lying and he can be like “see I told you and Lemon watched me and I didn’t do anything I’m town” when like mafia goons PROBABLY exist.

[Neon]

And. Further he is pretty damn insistent he knows everything when he’s never claimed any form of PR that would know anything so I’m not sure why he’s never even entertained the idea he’s just wrong… which is inherently anti town

[Neon]

Don’t sheep me tho I’ve been wrong way too much this game someone check me

[Leafia]

We won’t.

[Leafia]

Won’t sheep you I mean.

[Zorvo]

@May

I didn’t communicate myself perfectly there. This does not constitute lying.

I mean SillyKitty did the same thing.

[May]

And I don’t SR SillyKitty for that specifically - I scumread it for other reasons.

[Zorvo]

@sillykitty2366

If leafia flips town, is she wolf deliberately trying to set her partner up to be killed next and if leafia is wolf is she bussing both of us for little to no reason?

Who’s her partner?

[Zorvo]

LOL

[Zorvo]

@Neon

Further he is pretty damn insistent he knows everything

I’m pretty confident I’m right somewhere.

[Zorvo]

I mean SillyKitty has been voting villagers all game and you all are giving them a free Town read pass

[Zorvo]

Let’s just let them float by.

[Zorvo]

May might have been pushing a villager but never voted on the villager top wagons each time like SillyKitty did.
(Except for Hail.)
(SillyKitty voted Magnus then Me then O.Kazo.)