… except, I didn’t. You didn’t end the day on cloned, you ended the day on Pigeon. I noted your vote reasoning on Pigeon and quoted where I did so above, and nowhere in my notes did I say that your vote on Pigeon was part of the reason that I was pushing you.
You literally said that I barely tried to save Cloned which isn’t true at all. I tried as hard as I could to save him. The only reason I didn’t try harder was Pigeon’s claim. Also, you were ignoring the fact that I was also scumreading Pigeon because you’re scumreading me for not pushing on Magnus harder and switching to Pigeon instead. I only have 8 more posts after this, so I’m not going to waste them arguing with you. Good night. :annoyedleafeon: 
“WHICH IS ESSENTIALLY… NOTHING”
You tried once (1 time) to appeal directly to someone to vote with you. You said twice that you thought cloned was town.
In which you quoted nobody, nor responded to anyone.
Here is your singular direct appeal:
That is it, Leafia. You made no more direct appeals, you did not suggest any new targets when the current wagon wasn’t going well, you did not try to towncase cloned despite the fact that I pointed out through the quoted votecounts (AND GAVE THE TIMESTAMPS, WHICH YOU WOULD KNOW IF YOU ACTUALLY LOOKED AT MY POST), cloned had been a potential wagon for hours before EoD.
I’m scumreading you for not pushing on Magnus today
TODAY
TODAY
LOOK AT THE QUOTES. LOOK AT THE QUOTES LEAFIA. THOSE ARE QUOTES FROM TODAY. LOOK AT WHAT I SAID BENEATH THE QUOTES.
TELL. ME. WHAT. THAT. SAYS.
Pigeon’s claim,
Timestamp: 6:43 PM EST, 17 minutes before EoD.
Wagons after Squirrel unvoted in response.
However,
I will acknowledge that you only posted about the post 8 minutes before EoD, which isn’t a ton of time… but in that same post, you say
Here’s the full quote just to save you from falsely accusing me of taking it out of context
You’ve also just directly contradicted yourself here.
Literal back to back sentences.
Anyway, my post cap for today is 104, so I’ll probably be slow tomorrow until the post cap is lifted. I want one wagon to be Magnus, and I want the other to come from the pool of Eli/Gorta/Leafia ← last pending sleeping on it.
Goodnight, all.
The last thing I’ll say is a reply to that post. Someone else suggested different wagons and reads can change Aelin. You’re completely ignoring that. I’m not just some mindless beast that pushes on people without a thought, and I did try hard to save Cloned. It didn’t even look like Cloned would be yeeted until nearly the day’s end and until Pigeon claimed, and even a bit after it, I didn’t think Cloned was in any danger of getting yeeted. By the time I realized that he was, I could already tell that it was too late to save him and I was scared that Pigeon could be telling the truth about being a PR and that’s when I kind of gave up, because I figured it was too late to get a CFD going and do you seriously think I would’ve wanted Cloned dead over Pigeon if I was scum? What scum wants what’s likely a VT claim dead over a literal PR claim? Also, I’m pretty sure my vote was on Magnus at SoD2. I only changed it when I think it was Proffessor wanted different wagons and put forth a good argument for having different wagons. Good night yet again everyone. 
hi
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tsk tsk
what
I don’t understand what’s confusing about that statement, unless you just missed the rest of my post.
Gorta hasn’t even pretended to post anything substantive thus far. If you actually want Gorta to live for an extended period of time, I’m left to assume you towncore them - in which case, why? If you don’t towncore Gorta, why don’t you want to lynch them?
people have no faith in me
As for the dear old professor, You can see the first seeds of suspicious behavior in how they initially scumread Pidgeon then do a 180 and make them lock town (in their eyes) by saying stuff like "if cloned is town then so is Pidgeon. The fact that Pidgeon dies after Cloned is miseliminated tells me that Professor is responsible. You also have the fact that our dear old Professor friend clears Leafias (someone who is so hard to read) when everyone scumreads Leafia. This right here seems like TMI. I also dislike anyone who starts out of the gate putting out content, it’s something you do when you want to appear towny. I encourage people to take a look themselves, but between the hard clearing of Pidgeon and Leafia d1, Pidgeon’s death, and the robotic focus on looking productive early d1 I think our dear Professor friend is nothing more than a filthy dog.
I have gut feelings that I get upon reading posts and most of the times my gut isn’t wrong. There have been times I have caught wolves from nothing more than a feeling or for the wrong reasoning.
What does TMI mean in FM?
I’m happy to play the devils advocate here; a Townie doesn’t necessarily have to set their reads in stone, and why wouldn’t scum kill a claimed and possibly cleared healing role?
Are you scumreading Leafia, in that case? IIRC, Trochi claimed Leafia’s posting was NAI pretty early.
Aelin did point out that Professor’s defence of Trochi felt unnaturally strong, so you have a point.
Frog mentioned this idea as well in his first post.
As pointed out by someone, this point is mostly based on conjecture. Wolves could be offline due to timezones, there’s no concrete evidence to support such an idea, yada yada… it’s not evidence on it’s own, but it can support a wolfread.
Is this a legit question or is it a meme?
If it’s real it still means Too Much Information, which means that mafia members know who the towns are and act like they are or treat them like they are towns.
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a townie also doesn’t hard defend and clear two people early on in d1
I don’t have a read on Leafia as of now
In my experience it’s better to go ahead and just be there for SoD as wolf because you can look even better by interacting with people
Alright, a number of people have been saying that the Pigeon push was better than the cloned push. It is not. This is… a near objective fact. Two people pointed out that Frog’s case on Pigeon was for things mostly NAI. My cloned push pointed out a number of logical inconsistencies in cloned’s mindset and examples of where cloned’s intentions didn’t match his actions. Frog was pushing on Pigeon for textbook level 0 wolf behaviour, which we pointed out Pigeon does as either alignment.
Why… and why?..
This is a fair point. I suppose I can do a general overview, but the problem is I can’t go into specifics without revealing my identity. And I won’t be satisfied, and neither will anyone else probably, unless I can go into specifics. I have already given some pointers but I guess I can expand on them to an extent.
It’s less about the “what” and more about the “how”. Frog’s case on Pigeon was for NAI reasons and ignored warnings of this. My behaviour at EoD was clearly not coming from a perspective of a wolf who had no reason to panic given the V/V wagons - I was anything but comfortable.
My view was that it was either w/w, v/v or pigeon v cloned w (pigeon w cloned v was not possible or he would have self-pressed earlier)
I clearly didn’t townread these players and so with v/v not really being considered it only made sense to kill cloned out of these two
So I even though I suggested it could be W/W, I still cared about which one went over which is why I wanted people to vote cloned
If I was a wolf and decided it was W/W, why would I not sit back and let the PR claim die?
If I was a wolf, why would I not have reserved judgement on Frog’s terrible case on Pigeon, stopped trying to push cheese and allowed Frog to take the blame for p much everything and use it to push on him today? (I think he is probably town now)
It is true, and by this “this site” I meant Forum of Lies. Probably not as quickly as this game, but not far off either.
This is the problem with Trochi’s slot. No one knows what to do with it, because it has one of the lowest postcount to impact ratios and I think they’ve been coasting and letting us implode which I think was happening earlier with me/Frog/Aelin.
Thank you
Summary
thank you for saying it for me.
I decided overnight my reason of townreading them for having quirky ways of describing the way slots come across to them was not good, especially it is easier for wolves to come up with convoluted reasoning for reads when they have TMI.
Cutting this post off here. Still have around 100 posts left to catch up to.
I think I ought to make this point in a post of its own.
Maybe I should save this for post-game because this probably isn’t the time to be lecturing players on how to play this game, but I really think people need a reality check.
A good push is one that is based on alignment indicative evidence. A bad push is one that is based on evidence that is not alignment indicative. Can you figure out which one Frog’s push was? Great job, I knew you could do it!
…But oh wait, you… you think Frog’s push was the good one and mine was bad?
You might say that villagers can mistake things to be alignment indicative. And you would be correct! Particularly in the case of Pigeon, a player whose real personality matches that of a level 0 wolf. It is okay to be wrong and make mistakes. It is not okay to ignore the warnings of multiple players that your push was based on NAI evidence and go ahead with it anyway.
I am deeply concerned for our chances of winning if people cannot determine the difference between a good and bad push.
Summary
i intentionally phrased this post artificially in the hope that it becomes a copypasta but i also wanted to convey a serious point. so it’s a win/win.
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here’s the thing, my mind takes a confirmed wolf and builds worlds from there, so if Professor flips wolf and I think they will I would go through this thought exorcise
I go with my gut, the same gut that caught several deep wolves when no one else did, the same gut that was able to find fellow townies good when no one else could, the same gut that could consistently read Alice, and the same gut that is decent at reading people I have no meta on and getting accurate reads. I make mistakes, but I have learned that if I don’t trust my own gut I accidently shoot townies. There have been games in which I trusted a public shotlist and neglected my own gut feelings and guess what, I was right. Some things can’t be explained with “reason”, it just works. You should try trusting intuition more. I really don’t try to have a massive ego, it’s just I want people to recognize my gift
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Raw statistical chance is not the same as gut. Get your head out of your ass and stop being a moron and contribute. Your professor post was a decent start, now do more
The problem is there are more low efforting coasting players than there are wolves. I do think that at least 2 wolves are in this group though. Which is especially why I want to turn this game around and win, because if I am right on me/Frog/Aelin being V/V/V and we came together to dunk on the wolves after previously going for each other’s throats, it would be incredibly satisfying.
- lowposters
- yes
I think Trochi and Magnus are probably W/W. They’ve been gently theatring/pushing on each other all game but when push comes to shove they aren’t really trying to kill each other. This is what I mean when I say that town Trochi would have tried to make a push on Magnus at EoD rather than compromising on the “the lesser of two evils”, given that they only had one less vote than the split cloned/pigeon wagons.
Person… not people.
Actually, I can’t really joke about you being bad when I think you are probably town and have had similar reads to me because… lol
I’ve noticed you stealing a number of reads from people, like my Pigeon V if cloned V read, and now this. Why are you mindless sheeping these reads? Do you not have any concerns on the validity of them? Or just… any independent thoughts?
Admittedly, I began to have this concern when I skimread and saw that post she made saying she’s probably more in her scum meta right now… it kind of weirded me out and felt like an SFoL66 Moment TM
Did he actually still want to kill Pigeon after the claim though? I know he said it was “sketchy” but I assumed overnight the reason he didn’t self-pres was out of obligation to… not kill the claimed PR. Which, if true, is at least somewhat redeeming for him.
This isn’t unlikely. It’s… actually weird because I try to be the leader but I oftentimes can’t just accept the consensus. One of my best skills as town is being able to accurately identify LHF villagers in near-impossible situations (where they are pretty much doing objectively wolfy things) and save them. …In a way I find it just as satisfying as catching a wolf. I know that Pigeon was happy he was saved from the elimination, and I’m happy I was able to do it… though this was at the expense of someone else (lmao)
I mean, this is a good example right here. You just don’t bother to fake posts like this as a wolf (like talking about not randing wolf in a while). It’s cheap, but it’s pretty much always accurate.
Okay wow, this is taking longer than I thought. I will have to finish up later