GOAT^2 - Game Thread (5/15) - Day 6 - Mafia wonnered

[Vulgard]

@mollylikesorigami

VOTE: May

my motivation is shot, so pretend i’m finding a productive way to ask “what exactly the fuck was that”

my brain isn’t fully functional anymore but it was when i decided to do this so i’m sheeping me

ask my fully functional brain for specifics later

What even are your reads at this point? You had Lemonfairy as a wolf earlier and Illwei as somebody you wanted to vote but now you’re pushing May.

Why is your motivation shot? You weren’t even on the Eliza wagon. I don’t recall you wolfreading Eliza at all.

[BradLand]

KinkTool, Magnus, May in this game outside of you.

[BradLand]

Me.

[Vulgard]

@BradLand

KinkTool, Magnus, May in this game outside of you.

I pushed Magnus several times, am currently writing something about May and I pushed you on day 1.

[Vulgard]

Hell, I literally just said I think Magnus is the most likely mafia alongside Molly.

[Vulgard]

Wait, how did that reply to Illwei.
Whatever.

[Vulgard]

@Illwei

Part of the reason I don’t want to call you town May is because you keep commenting on things with posts that not just don’t say anything, but don’t say anything in the most confusing way where the reader might think that if they keep reading there will be something more.

This is towny and I’ve felt somewhat similarly about May, though this has taken a back seat to “they’re not progressing the game at all.”

@May You’ve been wolfreading KingTroll for several segments of the game. Why have you never actually tried to get him killed?

You also have a wack progression on Molly, and that’s regardless of her alignment.

@May

If Marl’s wolf, I think Zorvo’s almost certainly town, KT and Molly are probably town

@May

Going off of what I remember, yeah, Molly/Marl seems super plausible. I’ll have to read back with it in mind to verify, of course, but

@May

Molly and Marl as a scumteam have been extensively explained by Lemon, a read that I may or may not have undue trust in because it parallels the way I typically find and present reads. Lemon’s towny anyway so it can’t be that harmful to be biased, right? I see the potential connection on my own anyway.

@May

In a town Marl world, I’d look at Molly and Brad

Molly is town in a Marl wolf world… Molly is a wolf with Marl… I would look at Molly even if Marl flips town…
You have not once critically analyzed her slot. You’ve just talked about her in relation to Marl’s flip for the entirety of the early-game.

@May

yeah, Molly sus, I want to look into Zorvo, and that I do apologize a little to Marl about all that.

This is after Marl’s flip.

@May

VOTE: Molly, because her reads have been pinging TMI for me.

This is just sheeping my case, much like the Molly read before then is sheeping Lemon’s case.

@May

Scum: Molly, Eliza

You have not once presented independent reasoning on either of these slots, yet they are your two wolfreads come day 3. I’ll get back to Eliza later in this post.

@May

Welcome to my Molly/KT wolf world I don’t know if I fully believe it but I sure have constructed it and once I’ve built a world I usually don’t let it go. I’ll have to re-evaluate if Eliza flips W, of course, but I suspect I’ll bemore focused on deflecting the various objects that will be thrown at me in that case.

This is the closest thing to an independent read on Molly and even then it’s a pairing with KT who I think is town. What are you doing.

@May

What about find the scumteam, who are KingTroll and Molly,

Is not. You just quoted some posts by Molly and decided that was the scumteam.

@May

Given the fact that an explanation eludes me for now, and that I think KT’s most likely hypothetical partner is Molly, and that other people agree with me that Molly’s a bit scummy, etc etc et al, I’ll leave a VOTE: Molly. I’m not as strongly insistent on my KT read as I was yesterday, I think

…Okay, I guess? This honestly isn’t that bad, except:

@May

VOTE: KingTroll

I’m not paying attention but Brad told me not to vote molly and I’m too sleepy to protest

@May

Wait so I can create a washingmachine cycle this way? That’s hilarious. Actually let’s all vote Molly VOTE: Molly

@May

Anyway, in terms of the actual game that we are playing right now, my gutread compass is spinning a little wildly… Molly I’m not super confident in, honestly, I think my read on her being partnered with KT was mostly just wanting a solve. I’ll have to work on logic-ing out potential combinations of wolfteams - might spreadsheet it, I’ve got an hour or two before I have to start thinking about going to sleep (and probably three hours after that to actually do it).

This sudden acknowledgment of the solving making no sense is honestly pretty towny, but the progression earlier is completely out of wack. We’re in day 4 and I still have no idea what you’re doing. You keep giving worlds but you don’t actually try to get anyone killed and your reads don’t track at all.

Eliza progression:

@May

I saw a potential connection between Silviu('s slot) and Eliza

This is literally the first time you mention Eliza, past the halfway point of day 2.

@May

Yeah, I don’t think I independently scumread Eliza… I have my associative reads involving her, but the fact that they don’t stand alone should probably make me value them less than I do.

Why is it different from Molly, then? Your read on Molly has been purely associative or sheeping for nearly the entire game.

@May

Scum: Molly, Eliza

There is absolutely no explanation for this. The previous post about Eliza is the post I quoted earlier, where you’re doubting yourself on your Eliza read.

@May

Eliza viberead town butIhave done zero analysis on material benefit and I’m also in a bad meta spothere where I tihnk I have meta but I have not enough experience to actually be informed. Dunning kruger

Eliza viberead town? Okay… let’s see later.

@May

Eliza’s an easy wolf if she is one, easy ML if she isn’t. We can kill Eliza at any point in time so easily.

Imagine defending your townreads?

@May

KT unvotes Eliza as soon as it looks for certain like the wagon’s gonna go through. That’s W/V behavior.

This is towny in light of the KingTroll read, I just don’t get… why… you haven’t actually tried to get him killed. Like, you’ve seen him randomly flashwagon people at EoD and you’ve joined those flashwagons instead of suspecting him for them and/or pushing him. I think he’s town but your treatment of him is bizarre, you clearly keep coming back to that wolfread but you never once tried to turn it into a yeet.

@May

An easy wolf/ML since O kazo literally said he was wolf with her D1

Kinda towny in light of the previous post about Eliza.

@May

I dunno, instinct in me tellsmenot to flip Eliza today and I’m not sure why. I’ll look like the clown of the cricus if she’s scum,since that would mean I’ve been wrong about our final execution literally every single day , but I dont. Scumread her. I went back and scanned YBW’s post which does convince me a bit so I’m not *opposed8 to kill her today, but it doesnt feel correct to me.

You literally just put her at the bottom of your wolfreads… Next to Molly, whom you also… don’t talk about here…

@May

I’m not super unhappy with the Eliza execution, I just want to express my Opinions while I’m here.

So do you townread her or not.

Like, as I’m reading this I get the impression you want to defend Eliza but also not really, like you’re weighing your options.

@May

I can do anything. Unfortunately, I don’t want to kill Magnus over Eliza, so there will be no flashwagon tonight.

I thought you wanted to kill Molly? Or KT?
And you also joined a flashwagon at EoD 1 already? Why not start one of your own if you believe in neither existing wagon?

@May

Welcome to my Molly/KT wolf world I don’t know if I fully believe it but I sure have constructed it and once I’ve built a world I usually don’t let it go. I’ll have to re-evaluate if Eliza flips W, of course

This post is actually bizarre the more I look at it, because it’s working from the assumption Eliza is V without attempting to defend Eliza at all. It’s like you’re setting up pushes for tomorrow because you know Eliza will go over.

I know this is extremely disorganized but I’m just going to spit out whatever’s on my mind at this point.

[Vulgard]

@mollylikesorigami

it was for these two, they both came off as varying amounts of wolfily empty

the first was like, lol, you’re saying water is wet. looking around the room, i don’t think anyone here actually needed you to tell them that? just looks like standard fake helpfulness.

the second one was the bigger reason. you talked a long, long time about zorvo and eliza, but none of it was alignment related, and the worse part is that the advice you gave each of them had the attitude of assuming they were town. like, you’re telling zorvo how to be more threatening to wolves, and you’re telling eliza how not to get ml’ed, even though you haven’t expressed a townread (or read at all) on either. the troll read goes similarly nowhere, but it isn’t the same kind of borderline tmiey.

i’m looking through some of your later posts, and they’re better in the sense that there are actual game thoughts, but i’m not getting the sene that you actually… care? about the greater mystery, like you only started solving once you sat yourself down and made yourself, and even then it feels like the reads are a bit checklisty/obligatory, like how you brought up a bunch of people and events you had nothing to say about in your readlist. (i think the points in this paragraph are relatively weak and am not putting a lot of weight in them.)

idk none of these things are damning to me on their own, but for the stretch of time until your list it feels like you’re taking in and processing a lot of good, useful information, and it’s just inspiring… nothing in you. reading through that would get most villagers thinking, just by virtue of not knowing. they wouldn’t need to “turn on” their solving mode or anything, because it’s… not a mode.

This is your only wolfread that you’ve substantiated. It’s a pretty good wolfread. I called it towny earlier.

@mollylikesorigami

i could go for kazo. his popins feel like he’s just sitting in thread treading water, and i see him saying words but don’t feel him thinking if that makes sense, like he doesn’t have any plans to start solving.

i think brad’s worst crime is just being underwhelming, don’t have the same meta as y’all so i don’t know what his polarization looks like sorry.

This is also good. The day 1 in general looks pretty good.

@mollylikesorigami

tbh i don’t know if i’m sticking to silviu at all? like voting okazo looks tempting, and i prob vote any of the current non-marl wagons to save marl.

if i did, and silviu died and flipped w, i might actually go for brad because him popping in with a shakily reasoned silviu vote and dipping, all right after i started really digging into silviu, is pretty bussy in a vacuum, while okazo getting wagonned next to silviu and not trying to shield or bus them is probably mildly >rand v if silviu’s a wolf. i probably wouldn’t kill him for that alone, just press him on it for a while and maybe pivot if i like what he does.

if v… i dunno, i usually don’t see v flips as particularly telling. i’d start with the same brad/okazo poe most likely, unless there was a super weird nk that suggested wolves are deep.

i don’t think any of this is actually super likely how i’d come into d2, though, there’s a lot that can happen between now and then and it’s really hard to predict how that changes my reads.

Ths one as well. And the O. kazo vote at the end.

@mollylikesorigami

if i’m reading this correctly, kazo is voting vul for… avoiding capping

which is just a really silly thing to focus on in general but especially at eod, as his main push

and like, okay, sure, he’s the only one who’s close but not over, but… half the game was talking about not wanting to cap earlier? and people started the whole post counting gimmick to avoid capping too soon. so like, vul’s name still more or less came out of a hat here lol

it feels like a push for the sake of having a push that he doesn’t believe ¯_(ツ)_/¯

for silviu it’s mostly what i’ve already said about them, their response to me didn’t actually affect my points much and their later posting really didn’t move me either way

With this. All of this is pretty good and forms the major reason why I had molly as a villager for a while.

@mollylikesorigami

VOTE: Lemonfairy

i was waiting to see if lemon would improve, and her popin basically just said she won’t. it’s like, i get being overwhelmed, i get not being able to catch up, that’s me every other game, but she doesn’t seem to care about… doing anything else instead of catching up. especially when she said she read like 300 posts and isn’t talking about any thoughts she got from that stretch. she still hasn’t explained her marl vote either of course. it’s like she’s using being overwhelmed as a catch-all exemption, when it’s clearly not. she just feels frozen.

i’m also half-looking for wolves jumping on marl, and lemon sticks out like a sore thumb with having nothing to support her vote, not having any kind of passion or fire behind her vote unlike everyone else getting super cocky, and just generally being less towny and solvy than the others who are piling on marl. she feels like she landed there conveniently more than anyone else there.

This push is also more valid than I remembered.

The concerning part is this.

@mollylikesorigami

but i think both eliza and kt are getting a lot townier today

@mollylikesorigami

@ElizaThePsycho

(at this point my reasons for thinking marl wolf have fallen apart and im really only doing it because i don’t know who else outside of like

idk
magnus?)

this post catches my eye as villagery

@mollylikesorigami

okay eliza was relatively quick to iso

???

her posts seem fine at worst, and there are moments of towniness coming through for me

today’s wagons are sending me for a spin lol

@mollylikesorigami

VOTE: Illwei

respectable vote by molly

this is probably a lost cause

@mollylikesorigami

just my day-old moldy thoughts on silviu, and not wanting to kill the alternatives

There’s no real progression on Lemonfairy. She leaves the case there and then goes on Illwei while admitting she doesn’t have a case.

@mollylikesorigami

we’ve had the same stances on the eod chops, where it actually mattered

you’ve had more pushes than i have this game, but i think you’ve agreed with basically every push i’ve made

ergo we are representing similar reads with our actions, that’s what i mean by “effectively”

That’s the part that’s sending me for a spin because this is true. I do think there’s a chance she was adapting her reads in such a way as to pocket me but we barely interacted directly.

@mollylikesorigami

mostly tbd but maybe lemon again

after catching up on the stuff i missed yesterday and reflecting, i thought lemon’s approach was still wolfy after all. the way she kept saying “everyone talk to me about my reads” when she still hadn’t… explained… her reads… started to look like a crutch, like she was more interested in being seen as wanting to talk to people than actually solving the game

i found your point about eliza’s marl read and thought it was meh. apparently she’s playing like a wolf game of hers, i didn’t read it, so i just feel like i don’t have authority.

i uh… can’t fathom finding illwei’s posts ai really, think you know how i felt about silviu, and if they went over i’d think “lol fine” mostly

Here’s the progression on Lemon, finally, though it’s more of an acknowledgment of the previous read than anything. The Eliza treatment is very suspicious, she felt that Eliza was comfortably town on day 2 but now doesn’t feel inclined to defend her whatsoever. Illwei is back to NAI apparently?

@mollylikesorigami

i understand that may’s d2 was meh for oog reasons, i’m just concerned that they’re the one approaching me the most opportunistically rn. their reasoning seemed the laziest with just echoing “tmi” after really, really rarely talking about me all game, and then they also threw in that obviously weighted question about “who has the most accurate reads” that it felt like it could just be mooching off of vul’s read.

Idk about the last part but it’s like. True? The statement about May’s read on molly, anyway. I just looked into it and May’s treatment of molly is really not good.

@mollylikesorigami

their slot is the last slot left to me that doesn’t have something at least mildly towny about them, and i was otherwise probably gonna vote them or just sheep someone, because i don’t really have any confidence i can find a wolf

Why not? That’s the main thing that I have a problem with here (aside from gamestate reasons), you’ve already found a wolf on day 1 with o. kazo so I see no reason not to try and find more of them?

[Vulgard]

@Vulgard

she felt that Eliza was comfortably town on day 2 but now doesn’t feel inclined to defend her whatsoever. Illwei is back to NAI apparently?

Yeah, she inexplicably dropped the Eliza TR from day 2 and day 3 she just lets the Eliza kill happen, doesn’t even talk about Eliza really.

[Vulgard]

@Magnus

I think that explains why you’ve been more or less ignoring me for the last two days, even when certain other people were scumreading hard.
Alright, cat’s out of the bag. I’m willing to accept YBW as mechanically cleared.

I think I can see this being W/W with YBW? I mean, if you see that your partner is getting mechcleared and believe the JOAT claim then you’re going to commit. That said, I think YBW is hard town so this is more of a loose thought than anything else.

@Magnus

If you’re not entirely sure, don’t you think you’d be the best execution for Town? It’s not like there are other obvious candidates you have in mind, it’s not like you believe killing someone else would be better, you just don’t think dying yourself is helpful. Is that right?

I kinda like this approach to Eliza, though I’m not sure why.

@Magnus

Isn’t it funny how games go sometimes? Voting back to back with someone you cased a mere day before?
Anything I could say has already been said.
VOTE: Eliza.

This is also kinda towny.

@Magnus

I don’t believe it’s inconceivable for Eliza to flip Town, but fifteen hours have passed since this exchange and it feels like if Eliza truly believed her death wasn’t ideal for Town, she would’ve been fighting tooth and nail instead of making one-liners before her disappearance. (I’m not going to say it’s strange she’s been gone that long, people have lives, but the content while she was here is strange.)

If Marl’s death was required (I disagree on that front, but you do you), I think yours might be, as well. At the very least, drawing on relevant quotes to support why you’re townier than Illwei would be better.
Right now, your behaviour matches the construct of an evil in my head, someone who wants to survive but doesn’t especially care who else dies in turn, someone who can’t find numerous scumreads because because villagers act villagery, and accusing Illwei is an easy way out.

There are good points to your ISO, I’m aware of that front. But you aren’t even voting anyone, and you’re on the chopping block, so how can you say there’s someone else you scumread all that much more? But it’s alright, you don’t need to convince me. I’ll (likely?) be asleep long before EOD, but if you’re looking to convince other people I would start with May, since she seems to townlean you, or at the very least he’d prefer to vote KT out instead. Try your best to dig around, find whatever cracks you can, stay alive, and if you’re flipped wolf we can use those interactions to read you posthumously. Either way, it should be in your favour. Good luck.

This is a pretty good post to Eliza and about Eliza, I just have a negative gut feeling from it. It’s about the way he talks here, it feels like he’s approaching Eliza from the position of someone who knows this is a ML in the making.

@Magnus

Illwei still voting Zorvo, despite being active in the thread after and having read Zorvo’s JOAT claim, really doesn’t inspire much confidence.

This is true but also feels like shade.

@Magnus

I think in worlds where Mafia doesn’t buy Zorvo’s claim, they roleblock him (just in case) and kill someone else, which suggests Mafia thought he was real. That narrows down nothing, I think the only person who doubted him would’ve been the real JOAT.

With two evils alive, we have three more days. At this point I understand if I need to be executed for the endgame, just so I’m not the misexe evils push for, but I’m certainly not advocating for my own demise.

I feel like there’s an evil between YBW and KT, partially due to their pocketing exchange earlier. I don’t think Vulgard’s a wolf. We don’t have the evidence to entirely know whether Illwei’s good or not. Cases can be made for Brad or Lemon being good or evil. People are voting Molly on suspicion of stagnant reads(?). May’s leading the charge.

With that said, I fully recommend everyone reexamines their townreads.

Good sentiment but he’s not really doing anything.

@Magnus

VOTE: Vulgard for the first time all game.

Why note the bolded?

Meh. I don’t actually have a strong opinion on his more recent posting, I just feel like he isn’t doing anything and I still have the concerns from earlier. His case on me was bad and his case on YBW was better but not by much, now he’s voting me and it’s like. Ehhhhhh.

[YoubutWorse]

@BradLand

LOW HANGING FRUIT

IS THAT WHAT LHF MEANS OH MY FUCKING GOD FINALLY SOMEONE SAID IT

[Host_Account_1]

Vulgard (3): Illwei, BradLand, Magnus
mollylikesorigami (1): Vulgard
BradLand (1): KingTroll
KingTroll (1): May
May (1): mollylikesorigami

Not Voting (2): Lemonfairy, YoubutWorse

Day ends 2022-10-01T22:00:00Z

[KingTroll]

@Illwei

That’s not really anything. Experience level? How many past wolfgames has he had?

@May

I think I recall hearing that he hadn’t played in years, but I’m sleepy and forgetting the exact source and normally I’d just not speak on this until I looked it up and verified so I wouldn’t be publicly wrong but I’m so tired and don’t wanna so I’m hitting send

uhhh yeah that was in the gim dead/spectator talk. I used to be pretty good as both town and maf with. ehhh ballpark fifty games under my belt? like I can make my town and wolf games fairly similar however I do need to get a lot of rust off my mental gears

[Illwei]

@Vulgard

think I can see this being W/W with YBW

They aren’t wolves together. They would have known he wasnt the joat. Roleblocker exists.

[Illwei]

Wow that was the shortest catchup

[KingTroll]

it is so quiet

[Vulgard]

@Illwei

They aren’t wolves together. They would have known he wasnt the joat. Roleblocker exists.

I guess he wouldn’t write that? I don’t think they’re W/W anyway so this is pretty whatever.

And yeah, it is indeed pretty quiet.

[Illwei]

VOTE: KingTroll

[KingTroll]

oh no don’t

[YoubutWorse]

im convinced