Helluva Boss Mafia - Mafia Victory

[Lemonfairy]

don’t scare me sheesh

[ElizaThePsycho (Willow)]

let’s pretend like it is anyways

[Lemonfairy]

I don’t have time rn

[Neon]

Ope I’m an idiot I didn’t realize the timer actually changes.

[Neon]

Oddly dead thread

[Lemonfairy]

ok am back

[Lemonfairy]

later than expected because I took a break

[Lemonfairy]

I’m going to look in the order of Eliza → Magnus → Neon
(ordered by postcount )

[ElizaThePsycho (Willow)]

i have more posts than magnus and neon!?

[ElizaThePsycho (Willow)]

nvm its reverse

[Lemonfairy]

Eliza on Frost and Zone

@Zone_Q11

Ashlyn is being opportunistic, and Eliza wants a quickhammer. I propose we focus on these two for the remainder of D1.

@ElizaThePsycho

it was an RVS vote
UNVOTE

reaction shows worry of being suspected, a response that I don’t think comes from someone partnered with Zone
this is not w/w

Zone: Do you think that RVS is over? Why are you unvoting now?

@ElizaThePsycho

I hope it’s over; it’s nearly been a day

Zone: It’s been 18 hours; 30 more to go. VC’s spread among 5 people; we are clearly still divided / unclear about who will be today’s scapegoat.

@ElizaThePsycho

Yeah but that doesn’t mean we aren’t out of RVS

didn’t really get anything out of above interaction

@Zone_Q11

…? Well in that case I hereby declare that we are out of RVS, and anyone who still votes randomly are just voting randomly for the sake of going against my words instead of voting randomly and prodding for reactions.

@ElizaThePsycho

Ok fair

idk, this and Zone’s post before feels awkward and more unaligned

Frost: I am town, that’s all you need to know.

@ElizaThePsycho

nevermind
VOTE: Frost

I don’t think this is w/w

Zone: Well then, that leaves me to choose between creating a tie between Frostwolf and Ashlyn, cementing Ashlyn’s wagon, or just… do nothing.

…
I am just… going to wait until the final minute arrives.

@ElizaThePsycho

zone sometimes i hate you

@ElizaThePsycho

for legal reasons that’s a joke

@ElizaThePsycho

okay im untying the wagons
VOTE: Ashlyn

@ElizaThePsycho

i hate this

Frost: All right, here we go…

VOTE: Ashlyn

I did mention she’s in my scumread

@ElizaThePsycho

hammer?

EOD doesn’t look great but a lot of people didn’t look great at EOD1

@ElizaThePsycho

this entire interaction is weird to me
can’t really pinpoint why but

wolf Eliza does not point out an interaction between 2 scumpartners as weird like this
at least, I think it’s very unlikely

Frost asks if it is true that Eliza has interacted with Neon 0 times (feels like tying Eliza with Neon?)

@ElizaThePsycho

yes
i think
i haven’t actually checked
but based on a quick skim of my ISO

1. i was wrong on “i have no content”, technically
2. i still have not interacted with neon at all

@ElizaThePsycho

this is w/w with zorvo

says Frost is w/w with Zorvo

Frost: Oh then I do mean Zorvo yeah.

Silly me.

@ElizaThePsycho

this is a slip
VOTE: Frostwolf103

calls out Frost’s replacing Neon with Zorvo as a slip

@ElizaThePsycho

im CARRYING

@ElizaThePsycho

get DESTROYED zone

the emotion and pride and hostility at Zone feels unaligned

@ElizaThePsycho

what are y’alls thoughts on this, now that frost has flipped wolf

asking for thoughts on Zorvo being w/w with Frost

@ElizaThePsycho

zone kinda betrayed the push that EoD
i guess a zone kill kinda makes sense, but
not much over somebody like Magnus or Lemon

@ElizaThePsycho

what i mean by this is
v!zone is perfect ML bait with this

agree
these posts also puts Zone in a worse spot, which makes it more not w/w

@ElizaThePsycho

i mean yeah
but I still think a turn such as that is p wolfy
it kinda reads, at least with the timing and my vote, as a “try to save my partner, get a ML off, and justify it later”
i suppose i did read you and frost as w/w earlier, if that was the case this wouldn’t make sense but

^about Zone

@ElizaThePsycho

he also had a p good leadup, what with his talking to frost about his wagon and all
I should go back and read that again
one sec

@ElizaThePsycho

this all goes out the window if you and frost are w/w

^to Zorvo
I kind of like the extra uncertainty in the post here

@ElizaThePsycho

also @Zone_Q11 do this too

pinging Zone for reads

@ElizaThePsycho

to explain my “this is a slip”
frostwolf basically contradicted himself
as seen in this interaction

@ElizaThePsycho

this is EXACTLY the kind of thing a wolf with TMI does
idk what the implications of this on Neon and Zorvo’s alignments are, can’t wrap my brain around that quite yet but
there’s also this interaction, which I pointed out earlier

@ElizaThePsycho

…you I think my “slip” might’ve not been a slip in the way that i thought, seeing as they were not in an actual thunderdome, and frost actually thought Zorvo was town
however, it is still a slip, because frost heavily thought Zorvo was town and naming him as a hypothetical Vengeful target (and ~effectively thunderdoming him, even though it was really just “you are my counterwagon,” as seen below) based on my singular piece of evidence is extremely and is consistent, as seen above, with a wolf that has TMI
soooo
caught for basically the right reasons?
(refrence for above)

this is solid
I know slips are generally unreliable (or that’s what I say to people trying to read too much into slips) but Frost basically outed Zone with a slip and now this is making me think it’s Neon?

@ElizaThePsycho

ngl this kinda reads w/w with Gorta
its like frost is saying to his partner “WHY DID YOU VOTE ME THIS WASN’T THE PLAN”
(last bit being potentially false but point still stands)
this is a weak read but I wouldn’t discard it entirely

this is fine

Zone: I was the night kill, it literally is the only reasonable solution .

The only alternative is that the mafia somehow forgot or actively chose to not perform the night kill on N2, which does not help anyone .

@ElizaThePsycho

it would be REALLY FUNNY if both mafia tree’d
however, i find this very not plausible

@ElizaThePsycho

…and zone too I guess, he can have something there probably
posting the whole sequence again for my own convenience, since this’ll be a hard one

@ElizaThePsycho

zone also just straight up doesn’t question that Frost picks neon initially
(i am operating under the assumption that zone’s reactions to both posts are ~effectively separate posts, just based on demeanor)

@ElizaThePsycho

as mentioned they’re basically seperate posts
cuz at first zone is like
“cool”
and then he’s like
“oh wait”

@ElizaThePsycho

btw can anyone find like a
“moment when Frost switches into antispew”
usually its p obvious at what point a wolf started antispewing in retrospect, at least in my experience
if you could do that that’d be helpful

unaligned with Frost

@ElizaThePsycho

VOTE: Zone_Q11

@ElizaThePsycho

(I’m p sure there was just no way zone was attacked, so)

ok I’m going to stop here and I’m not going to bother going into Frost and Zone’s ISOs to look for comments on Eliza
I think it’s pretty obvious Eliza is town here
my paranoia on Eliza was dumb

TL;DR Eliza is unaligned with Frost and Zone
didn’t finish looking at the entire ISO but pretty sure she’s just town

[Lemonfairy]

Magnus on Frost and Zone

Frost: VOTE: Magnus
Caught, there is no youtube around this parts.

@Magnus

I just posted this, Frost.

Frost: It means nothing to me? Certification is meaningless unless you make solid play.

@Magnus

Softing innocent child at SOD gone wrong.

Frost: I feel this softclaim is over my head, I am still waiting for good play.

@Magnus

Confirmed Town.

I don’t understand this whole interaction
feels like they’re communicating in different languages

@Magnus

Here’s my pitch: everyone should sub out during the game, so none of the starting players get to endgame. For the meme.

Zone: I am willing to consider the thought.
–and I am also very willing to reject the execution.

@Magnus

Don’t actually.

above interaction feels weakly unaligned

@Magnus

Zone seems to scumlean Chihiro and Ashlyn, and townleans Lissi.

@Magnus

Frostwolf only seems to townlean Magnus.

@Magnus

Zone (positively read by Zorvo and Lemon, and possibly by Lissi and Mistyx), probably town.

@Magnus

Frostwolf (seemingly read by none?), could also go either way.

still have no idea what this did

@Zone_Q11

The guy’s suddenly got a flashwagon at the start of the game? Unless he’s the poorest wolf alive, then he’s more often than not town.

@Magnus

I had a flashwagon at the start of ‘80s Wild Overhaul, I don’t see how that’s alignment indicative. There was no chance I’d be executed there, I wouldn’t feel in danger either way.

Zone: Huh… Fair enough. (Though the fact that you admit this makes me believe you are more likely to be town since w!Magnus would have no reason to disclose this information.)

@Magnus

w!Magnus wasn’t happy with a quiet thread in AI Upick, they’re protown as either alignment.

feels kind of unaligned?

@Frostwolf103

Zorvo should have noticed Zone didn’t voted Magnus when I pointed out

@Magnus

Why should Zorvo have noticed that?

You may have exposed his lack of research, sure, but is that wolf indicative?

facts
can’t really say it’s unaligned? idk, it’s hard to determine when I feel Magnus is just pointing out bad points that I think they would point out as either alignment

@Magnus

Feels like Frost goes from making a joke to making the moment into something it’s not, which I kinda side-eyed earlier. I’m mainly waiting to see if Frost does what Wind warned me he’d do.

this is fine

@Magnus

I think Ashlyn acted the most natural at the time, with Frost and Eliza simply acting weird, and Mist being unreadable for it. This only considers the scene in isolation, though. ‘Cause reasons.

@Magnus

Of the four, I’d say Frost matches that profile the best. Ashlyn kinda started the joke, that’s not “blending in”. Mist cast the first vote and dipped, that’s kinda notworthy. Frost jumped in with a vote, kinda waffled on whether it was a joke or a read before retracting it, and Eliza jumped in after the moment had passed.

^response to Neon saying one person on Magnus’ wagon is a wolf
I don’t think Magnus would single out their scumpartner like this if they were wolf

Frost: Wind is not here?

@Magnus

Wind gave me a few pointers in AI Upick.

@Zone_Q11

…in hindsight, IDEK whether this post was Magnus’ readslist or a “this is what everyone thinks of each other” list. Hey @Magnus, was this post actually your readslist?

@Magnus

No it was not.
Let’s see if I have time to read back.

I think Zone pointing out Magnus’ weird threadreads thing is more not w/w

Frost: I am offended.

@Magnus

I don’t really think you look that good, you’re kinda reminding me of AI Upick, but I haven’t wolfcased you or anything so I can’t be sure.

@Frostwolf103

I didn’t find anything on the topic, what. You’re bluffing.

@Magnus

We had a neighbourhood that game.

think Frost was kind of worried Magnus knew his meta
feels not w/w

@Frostwolf103

You okay?

@Magnus

“Similar vibes as a proof dare.”

I don’t understand what this means

@Zone_Q11

…? It might be my imagination, but I could’ve sworn the four of us had talked with each other before.

@Magnus

I hadn’t interacted with Chihiro before this game, to my recollection.

@Magnus

I’d rather Wazza be shot in the night, ngl.
VOTE: Frostwolf103

Frost: I don’t get you man.

@Magnus

It makes sense to me.

this might be a weird read but the “I don’t get you man” from Frost gives me really unaligned vibes

@Magnus

Frost is pres-voting here.

@Zone_Q11

If you are reading this, then I somehow survived N1 despite claiming Vigilante. Full disclosure: I am NOT Vigilante

@Magnus

I don’t think you shouldn’t have claimed.
Anyway, either Mafia didn’t believe you’d shoot an evil N1 or they believed killing a more present social player was more important. Not to say you’ve been absent by any means, but I think Mist had more influence.

@Zone_Q11

I had a clear preference of Wazza over Ashlyn/Frost, but that wagon never went anywhere .

@Magnus

I might’ve voted Wazza if there had been more time to see if others were up for it, by the way.
But it didn’t feel especially helpful if Wazza flipped Town, I wasn’t sure what information would be gained from that.

a bit not w/w here

@Magnus

To be fair, Mafia could very easily have a roleblocker.

Zone: How is that of importance?

@Magnus

A claimed vigilante mightn’t be the most pressing target.

@Frostwolf103

Are you saying that this is more confident how Zorvo read Zone?

@Magnus

I’m just saying Zorvo hasn’t been solving to the extent I would expect from him.

@Magnus

This is difficult to say… but I agree with this sentiment. I’ve already subconsciously accepted a Frost execution today and zoned out, instead of engaging with the people on the block and the people around me. I pushed for a Frost wagon EOD1, and now that it looks like it’s happening… I dunno, I expected more resistance. I’m used to a certain resistance, a tension in the air, when a wolf’s on the block. It was there yesterday, but I’m not getting it here.

@Magnus

I think Gorta, Lissi, Lemon and Zone are Town; I don’t have a tangible opinion on Eliza, but I think Frost is suspicious.

@Frostwolf103

Personally, I will go with Gorta on this one

VOTE: Gorta

Should anyone have questions I can answer about this vote, do please read back on my D2 Wallpost.

@Magnus

This hasn’t influenced my read on either of your slots, and that’s concerning.

@Magnus

That’s it. Everyone’s settled on Frost… if he’s Mafia, that probably means his death’s been accepted? I could look at which players haven’t really commented on his wagon, not really engaging instead of bussing or protecting him? Would anyone else do that?

@Magnus

Alright, so Wind told me in AI Upick that Frost had a volume tell. A joke was even made about his name, “frost wolf”, as in “frozen wolf”. Of course, in AI Upick Frost was an active serial killer, but he was making bad faith pushes. In the game that just ended, Nightmare Woods, Frost slanked the entire first day, but was then replaced, presumably for real-world busyness. Wind also mentioned a game in which Frost slanked as Town, and she was immediately suspected upon replacing in. I can’t actually confirm how accurate the volume read is, but I’m echoing what I’ve heard.

In short: the volume tell is apparently real.

not going anywhere with meta
which is fine probably

Frost: Well have you done it now when you made the post?

@Magnus

I was quietly hoping someone else would do it, but if you insist…

@Frostwolf103

Have anyone read you positively and negatively, does that help you read them in return? Bit too good to be true or feel threatened?

@Magnus

This actually bothers me about some players. Some people tend to townread the people townreading them, and scumread the people scumreading them, whether or not it’s actually deserved.

@Frostwolf103

@Magnus Can you out your reads you are concerned with?

@Magnus

This was just a general statement about an ongoing pattern. Are you asking me to share my reads, or other reads I’m concerned with?

yeah, a bit of disconnect here

@Frostwolf103

I say bullshit because this is not Upick and failed to execute if that volume was true during the game

This is different

@Magnus

I wouldn’t blatantly make up a meta lie— actually, I would, but I’m not making up this tell. Besides, that volume tell is the room for error here; your gameplay here approximates that of AI Upick, and that’s relevant because you were evil in that game.

@Frostwolf103

You know what

VOTE: Magnus

Cho cho

@Magnus

Wolf claim. I softed innocent child D1.
What made you drop me from your townreads? Because it seemed like a bad argument?

this feels unaligned

@Magnus

I wouldn’t lie about meta, I mentioned this tell in AI Upick, I mentioned this tell in Nightmare Woods, it would be a ridiculous fabrication to make and I would’ve been called out for it earlier. This is kinda silly.

yes, unaligned

@Frostwolf103

That Magnus mentioned about bad faith pushes on Upick? I am actually on that town play this game, what Magnus said is false because he follows pointers from a player that doesn’t play this game, since Magnus have neighborizer with Windward thus shouldn’t count to solve my slot.

@Magnus

You were evil that game, you were called out for making bad faith pushes by numerous other players, and that’s what looks bad about your slot today, not your volume tell. That volume tell is really your only defence, since you’re posting a lot right now; saying it shouldn’t count because we had a neighbourhood is very ridiculous.

@Frostwolf103

That one time when Eevee is killed when Jaiden should have killed Eliza instead?

@Magnus

Killing Eevee was the optimal play and you can’t change my mind.

@Frostwolf103

What about Wazza claiming to be double hider on lol, which I find it unbelievable.

@Magnus

Role was real, though.

@Frostwolf103

If I was town I would have pushed Eliza into execution, but I figured out she’s second neutral so that means I knew Gorta has to be mafia.

@Magnus

Eliza was actually Town.

@Frostwolf103

Also because Magnus being alive this long is enough to be suspicious.

@Magnus

Except all the nightkills made sense, I made sure of it.
N1, killed the person who made a wish to reveal Mafia.
N2, missed a kill on the bulletproof innocent child.
N3, killed Jarek, the other innocent child, as well as Eevee using the loud attack because they were lying about being a lost wolf.

In comparison, I had just been socially active. When should I have died, in your eyes? Just keep in mind, I outright claimed being bulletproof, and it was even true on N1.

yeah, idk this doesn’t feel like theatre and Frost is legitimately struggling with Magnus
in contrast, Magnus still seems pretty chill

going to end this here

TL;DR idk about Zone but Magnus feels pretty unaligned with Frost
ig there’s a little bit of unalignment with Zone but it’s not as obvious as with Frost

[Lemonfairy]

I have to leave for a bit
will do Neon later probably

[ElizaThePsycho (Willow)]

is there a point to doing neon if we’re both town
okay I guess if you find neon to be villagerier than magnus but

[Magnus]

@Neon

At this point I think its just Eliza and I’m a fucking idiot for tunneling Magnus… fuck.

Sorry @Magnus

Alright, let’s go for it. I’m happy to talk about Eliza.

@Neon

Also is Eliza a Hellbusser @Lemonfairy @Magnus

I couldn’t tell you. I don’t know Eliza’s meta.

@Neon

think this also explains why Eliza is so desperate to get a kill today and not go into F3.

When I saw your suspicion on Eliza yesterday, I had the same thought. “Oh, if Eliza was evil, that would explain such and such.” Kindle read-only gaming.

@Lemonfairy

ok so Magnus thinks it’s Neon
Eliza thinks it’s Neon
Neon thought it was Magnus and now thinks it’s Eliza
I still need to do the association thing Magnus reminded me about (I was planning to ISO everyone first but idk if there’s enough time)

Yeah, but I can be flexible in my thinking. It’s all about reaching the correct conclusion.

@Magnus

Winning a game of Mafia as Town is tough because the majority can’t just be mostly correct. Killing two evils is meaningless is the third flies under the radar. Right?

[Magnus]

Helluva Boss Mafia - Day 6 (4/13)

Since our protective died last night, my days are numbered. I’m going to ISO every living slot in order and share my thoughts on everyone, so don’t take it personally. Weird late vote after the wagon had dissolved. I know it looked weird at the time, but this couldn’t be opportunistic unless Eliza wasn’t reading the thread; and either way, why would a wolf draw such attention to themselves, or not bother reading the thread? Strangely enough, I see this as rand>town. This excuse doesn’t reall…

[ElizaThePsycho (Willow)]

what

[ElizaThePsycho (Willow)]

@Magnus

Kindle read-only gaming.

what does this mean

[Magnus]

I reevaled on your ISO after Chihiro died.

@Magnus

Conclusion: Eliza’s ISO lacks a lot of sustenance and I’m not sure why she’s as a townread as she is, although her conduct yesterday was far better than her behaviour around Frost’s slot.

[ElizaThePsycho (Willow)]

… yeah