Mafia: Trials and Tribulations [Thread 2] - Day 7 (4/17) - Mafia Win!

[Frostwolf103]

@Arctic

Minor point on avatar changes midgame. Just… don’t do it, please. Frostwolf changed his avatar to his flavor midgame, and we couldn’t exactly ask him to change it back as this would only exacerbate the problem. When Marl changed his flavor to Apollo Justice, Frost commented that he assumed Marl was claiming this as his flavor. Avatar changes midgame, especially when the flavor is either that of the game or related to the game, just cause a lot of gross interactions- so please just avoid them in future. I do not think there is a rule against it, but for the relevant persons consider this a plea that one is made.

Yeah I didnt ask myself but you do make good point.

[Leafia]

I probably would’ve survived if you hadn’t been pushing me so hard. Although I’m not sure if we still would’ve won or not.

[Frostwolf103]

I hate this happened because people love to hang to dry on EoD every single time

[Leafia]

You were RBed by Marl the night you died interestingly enough.

[Frostwolf103]

Urgh that is unfortunate…

[Frostwolf103]

Hmm okay that explains

[Prophylaxis]

arctic1

@Arctic

The setup seemed fine to me. I was concerned at first when I saw the rand because I thought it was slightly townsided but Leafia survived long enough, Wisdom stayed afloat and Marl GOATed. The main mechanical controversy was probably the way that votes at EoD1 were handled. Arete had previously always ruled it as votes being valid if posted before threadlock. However, the thread does not lock at the exact time specified, instead it locks at seemingly any random second of the specified minute. This ended up ruining the wolves’ plan to give Marl cred by making it seem like wolves were scared of his ability – they didn’t consider it worth “using” the ability shot on that day because it would tie Marl/Babel together and Babel wouldn’t be villagery or active enough to endgame. I think there ought to be some sort of standardization to prevent this happening again – i.e. ruling that votes do not count at XX:00 regardless of what second the thread locks on.

Agree that some sort of standardization will be good, because EoD is quite important and the wolves really got screwed by the EoD timer being slightly off. Our fault for getting complacent after that.

I do think that wolves had a pretty solid rand - Marl/Wisdom were two of the stronger players in the game and they were able to work together quite well in lategame.

arctic2

@Arctic

There were the classic instances of Leafia TMI this game, which were probably the main social tool town had to solve this game. People did evaluate the spew, however not to the full extent– Leafia went so far as to claim to Proph in the stump chat that Marl’s ability could be the reverse of what he claimed (it was), and when Proph asked why would Babel have tried to snipe in that case, Leafia couldn’t come up with a good answer. I will add the link to the stump chat in the post with the dvc link so you can take a look for yourselves, but Proph pointed out the key part here Mafia: Trials and Tribulations [Thread 1 - DO NOT POST] - #8923 by Prophylaxis

Little did I know that that post contained the key to solving the entire game

If I knew just how important the Leafia spew in my neighborhood was, I wouldn’t have posted it off-the-cuff like that

arctic3

@Arctic

Prophy’s linking of the Vulgard article summed it up pretty well. People were incessantly spamming every thought that they had, impulsively reacting to micro posts, spouting changing worldviews every 5 minutes and possible teams. Some players (both town and wolves) were using points like “I’m never a wolf here” and spamming ineffective threats as a means to avoid the elimination. None of this stuff is conducive to a productive threadstate (or wincon, for wolves), and instead serves to make the game unreadable and makes people less likely to backread. Backreading was the tool village had to win this game – that isn’t to say that they didn’t backread, and see the Leafia spew I was talking about – rather they did not evaluate how each player ended up at their worldviews and if their reads made sense for them to have. It’s worth citing the LyLo as a good example - Litten was letting realtime interactions affect his reads and ended up townreading Marl and Wisdom for “feeling the same as him” and “feeling too uninformed” respectively. This is more relevant for the first point, but town and wolves have more or less the same wincon in this situation, so solving from the posts made on that day wasn’t of much use.

Yea, this this this.

This game had 15k posts and most of it was filled with endless spam which made it very difficult to backread the game. It was why I realized engaging in realtime D3 as confirmed town was useless, which is why I spent most of my time analyzing D1 instead.

I know I keep harping on this, but with endgame specifically, the answers are ultimately in the history of the game. Litten mentioned how Marl was coasting after the D3 execution, for example, and I think that should have been looked a little more into.

In f5, I think that wolves and town do have different win conditions (wolves need to get a townie to misvote, while the villagers need to ensure that their solve is correct) but in f3, once the townie and the wolf crossvote, said from that point on is just two people doing the exact same thing and one of them happens to be a wolf.

arctic4

@Arctic

As someone who had TMI from the start of the game, it’s ?probably? bad form to criticize the mislynches, but the Eliza mislynch was… seriously questionable. I am not sure why people considered the possibility that Babel outted themselves only to try and kill another wolf. Babel was KP, yes, but voting in the last second and going against the plan of tying the wagons still outted themselves, and would have probably got them killed the next day. This was the same day where Litten had a brief epiphany of Marl being a wolf, but other than Eliza it seemed most players didn’t entertain the validity of such a world - rather they continued spamming their own worldviews. This lack of discussion meant no one was really there to sanity check Litten’s thoughts and reinforce/disprove them, and so he quickly lost confidence.

As someone lurking in dead chat, it was tough to see the lack of town cohesion after I died

I think what Chloe/Litten needed was someone to bounce reads off of near the endgame there. Having a villager that you may not completely be in lockstep with, but you can at least trust to look over your process and tell you what you’re doing right or wrong is /huge/.

[Leafia]

There’s nothing selfish about wanting the game to be fair CRich.

[Frostwolf103]

That night that I could have removed roleblock once and for all, came little too late ^^

[Leafia]

Interestingly, Manager was never used.

[Leafia]

This site is famous for overthinking things.

[Prophylaxis]

I will say that I enjoyed playing this game for the short time I was in it - especially getting to village with Wisp again and Chloe for the first time.

The constant wolf rands were tough to sit through, so it was nice finally randing town in a game here for once.

[Leafia]

Why’d you add yourself to the sub in list if you didn’t want to sub in?

[Leafia]

Agreed.

[Leafia]

To be honest, I think she’d probably do exactly that.

[Frostwolf103]

Yeah, touchè

[Leafia]

You should probably try doing the same thing. You made the choice to sub in. No one forced you to do so.

[Frostwolf103]

One…more…turn please

[Leafia]

I love that pfp too.

[CRichardFortressLies]

I didn’t know until I was told about it.
I might delete discord account.