Pathologic Invitational - TOWN VICTORY!!

[Vulgard]

I just find it really weird, because. If May/Lemonfairy is the team, then they really defended Nokiel and Kanave for no reason at all. Those misyeets are right there. Yeah, preserving misyeets for the late-game and all that, but really, I feel like it would be kind of a freebie for them to just let Kanave and Nokiel get yeeted while poisoning me and Arctic?

Like, when I think about the poisons, I don’t see why May/Lemonfairy wouldn’t go for towncore and loud player poisons, because they were towncore. Killing off the loudest town players who are towncore as wolves secondary in the towncore leaves wolves with nobody loud enough to truly oppose them, even if the remaining players re-evaluate. I don’t see this team poisoning players whose deaths do not remove villager space in the thread, so to speak. The argument “they were poisoning players who wouldn’t push their agenda, poisoning loud townies allows them to push their agenda” doesn’t apply here because May and Lemonfairy were both towncore, and rather consistently.

[Lemonfairy]

(I feel like it could be May/Nokiel)

[Lemonfairy]

ok before I get ahead of myself, I will actually go and look at everything

[Vulgard]

If May/Lemonfairy is the team, poisoning people like Jar and Whysper does nothing for them. These are potential MLs if nothing else, especially if people like me and Arctic are poisoned. Poisoning me and Arctic is perfect, because we are trying to kill villagers. Then they just get one misyeet or two on their own, which would be super easy to do without significant opposing voices, and bam. Easy dub.

Again, referring back to Arctic’s discussion of the poison mechanic, it would make perfect sense for a team in the towncore to poison incorrect towncore members. It simultaneously removes LHF villagers (because they will get yeeted through the poisoned players) and the townread players (poison death). Then they can poison people on the fringe of being towncleared or something and boom. Like, I feel that if May/Lemonfairy is the team, the poisons this game would occur in reverse order, and I would be included.

[Vulgard]

It’s also worth mentioning that Lemonfairy/May poisoning you, Arctic, is kinda dumb. Using your own logic, you get to push your agenda today, and you’ve expressed suspicion of Lemonfairy before. I haven’t. Why not poison me?

[Arctic]

response to wolfreads in b&fm (town)

@Lemonfairy

@Marluxion

also “Lemon was pure town yesterday” is LITERALLY meaningless without the substance to back it up

yo Marl, I’m obvtowning rn so why don’t you read my latest posts and lmk if you still think I’m a wolf or not?

@Lemonfairy

like, I get that Zorvo isn’t explaining their townread on me that well but I am literally towning it up so hard

@Lemonfairy

@Arctic

why though

the game has roughly the same amount of posts
that’s kind of the point i’m making - you felt more involved in the actual movements of that game in contrast to how you’ve played this one by making catch-up posts in a seemingly structured way and otherwise having little grasp on what’s been going on. there’s way less initiative here

because I’m busyyyyy
like, are you seriously making an activity read on me?

but then what about today, when I’ve actually had free time to post?
you’re making assumptions on my meta (which is still mostly unstable) based on skimming what, one game, and also having never seen me wolf (and I can assure you, my wolf game is not this high level - not yet, anyway)

literally, I am saying this now
if y’all aren’t townreading me after all those ISOs, you’re either a wolf or you have serious skill issue (not reading my posts is counted as skill issue too b/c I said so)

@Lemonfairy

is it just me or are Arctic and Arete openwolfing?

@Lemonfairy

like, the interactions I had with May are just kinda… not w/w and also not super non w/w either
this reminds me of the time Proph scumcased me for being w/w with Wisp (flipped scum) because we never directly talked to each other (because we weren’t online at the same time) and made a big case about it and everyone was like “yeah, lemon is scum with Wisp ”

@Lemonfairy

I moved Arete up b/c I was liking some of their posts while interacting with them at the time

I also townread them SOD today when they came into today with the whole “vote me out while working with me under the assumption that I’m town today or never vote me out” and I’m weak to that kind of ATE and I was expecting a sheepable solve from them if they were town but they come up with something like Arctic/May/Lemon and Arctic/May/Prisma

the second post was also some time after I did my first ISO on May (I can’t remember if I townleaned May after my first ISO or not) and the day before, May plopped an unexplained vote on me and dipped so yeah, I was scumreading May then

but then I re-evaluated because I felt I had been too focused on Arete being scum this time so I went and looked into other people’s ISO’s instead of digging through Arete’s and possibly confbiasing myself further but I managed to reasonably find the people I ISO’d as towns (May being one of them)

@Lemonfairy

@Arete

imo I’ve been pretty clear on which specific post changed my mind on Arctic, you trying to feign ignorance is not really helping your case regardless of your alignment

woah the shade
I’m most definitely not feigning ignorance

I either missed it or I read but forgot about it because I didn’t agree with your reasoning
if you could direct me to that specific post you’re talking about, I’d appreciate it

@Arete

the interactions were Not Great

I think it’s less about how “not great” my interactions with May are but more that (fmpov where you and Arctic are wolves) you can’t really find me as individually scummy so you try to use interactions with (probably another town) May to push either me or May because the thread was kind of leaning that way and we seem like the most viable pushes.

I don’t think you’re trying to read me in an objective or genuine way
like, the way you’re approaching this is again, not in a way that’s trying to find my alignment or sort me and you don’t express any kind of doubt in your scumread either, which is something I’d expect from you at this stage of the game where you (from what I’ve gathered) haven’t been reading the game too closely and we’ve been having a streak of town misexes. I think the aggression you have here feels forced and you’re faking the confidence to make your scumread appear more substantial than what it actually is.

I also find the way you treat Zorvo/Jarek/Prisma’s slots and how you easily gave them townreads without going into detail why they’re town (from the couple of posts I’ve read, correct me if you have gone into detail) and the way you’ve been treating my slot this phase to be very different. In particular, when I’ve stopped slanking as much and towned it up with more ISOs and WiM to solve, you somehow found that wolfy?

I literally don’t know what to say if this is your town game.

@Lemonfairy

like arghhh these cases make me mad because they’re so bad but I find that I can’t even say much b/c most of it is just quote walls of me commenting on May and saying “wow lemon’s so wolfy her quick takes on individual posts don’t add up to her overall conclusion”

like of course it doesn’t, I put more weight on some posts than others and I take some meta into account too
it’s more of a way for me to solve and figure out people than for other people to see and I try to look for both towny and not so towny parts and make a read based on what I feel is most likely correct

why is me solving being spun into something scummy?!

@Lemonfairy

like, I haven’t been this mad(?) in mafia for a while

@Lemonfairy

Arete asks for May and Lemon’s ISOs
Arctic goes and quotes them

there is 0 commentary

Arete and Arctic: wow omg wtf is this lemon is lockwolf omg my eyes have been opened

@Lemonfairy

@Arctic

the main reason i have for this connection is not due to a lack of interaction (even though from may’s side that is A Thing) but rather due to the ways you two have interacted and made your reads on each other

I’m not saying it was
I’m just likening the two because both times it feels like I’m being scumcased for supposed “w/w interactions” that are actually non-existent and in a way that feels very ingenuous (and likely from wolves)

@Arctic

okay in that case inconspicuously moving someone you previously townread down to the bottom of your readlist just because they voted you (not even with intention to kill) feels more likely to come from a wolf who is inclined to remove people from the game who oppose them than a villager who has to actually figure out why people are doing things they are doing

I did not townread them that highly to begin with iirc
I moved them down not only because they voted me, but b/c I thought they had not been as solvy as when I played with them before in previous games (later I think I saw molly say it was b/c May was sick so that’s kind of understandable)
the vote on me was icing on top

@Arctic

i saw you pinged them with a reminder to explain it the next time you were in the thread, but the fact you made that readlist and moved them down before they even answered gives me the impression that you did not actually care about their explanation

I was already scumreading them (or at least, not actively townreading them b/c I do the POE thing) the ping was to double check/ask them to explain the vote

if I didn’t care if I was scumreading them correctly or not, I wouldn’t have bothered to ISO them again and townread them later

also, you say this like May is town and I’m treating their slot with wolfy agenda but the entire reason you and Arete started scumreading was because you thought I was w/w with May
so this is very ??

insane amounts of lamist, emotion, omgus

where has this been this game? there’s literally nothing even remotely similar to this

the reason i’m harping on this point is because one of my main wolftells used to be that i would just ignore reads on my slot as a wolf

[Arctic]

@Lemonfairy

anyway, I was planning to ignore your entire push on me

and this literally just feels like wolf POV

[Arctic]

vulgard the issue is i don’t really think it’s may/lemonfairy i think it’s you/lemonfairy because your interactions make the most sense as w/w and i think you would obviously keep me around while being wrong on everything and poison other, more correct consensus townreads like jar

[Vulgard]

Now you get to the question “why would Kanave/Nokiel poison like this,” and my answer is that they really had no other choice. Poisoning someone like me who’s wanted to get them killed for most of the game would just, well, get them killed. Poisoning the few remaining ML targets such as Eliza and beancat would also be bad, because it removes them from the ML pool, and makes a wolf more likely to be yeeted. Who’s left? The in-between. People who won’t be MLed for the foreseeable future, but who also will not kill wolves when poisoned, given their current reads and position in the game. Whysper and Jar fit that category perfectly.

And in regard to the Arctic poison, again, there’s really no better choice they could’ve made. I’ve wanted to kill them for most of the game, Lemonfairy has actively defended both of them and is being sussed by Arctic (potential ML and also won’t vote for them). This leaves you and May. May wanted to kill Nokiel yesterday, quite badly in fact, and said that it was Nokiel if it wasn’t me/Eliza. May would presumably want to kill Nokiel when poisoned.

Which leaves you, the player who’s been suspecting the towncore the most. I completely understand why you have, but I’m looking at these poison targets and looking how they compare between worlds. I don’t see why May and Lemonfairy wouldn’t have made the choices I outlined, and I easily see why Kanave/Nokiel would have.

I don’t want to entirely write your worldview off, neither do I want to write off May/Kanave specifically. But this is how I see it at the moment.

[Vulgard]

How do I convince you I’m town, then? And, well. If you had a greencheck on me, who would you think it is? I dislike hypotheticals like these, but maybe you don’t.

[Arctic]

@Lemonfairy

I feel like that’s just a waste of time when I could be going through those ISOs and figuring out who the scum are

none of your solving has any comments, i can’t be convinced just by a bunch of naked quotes

[Arctic]

@Vulgard

How do I convince you I’m town, then?

that’s the neat part

@Vulgard

If you had a greencheck on me, who would you think it is?

lemon/may or kanave/nokiel
not particularly useful i know

[Vulgard]

@Arctic

insane amounts of lamist, emotion, omgus

where has this been this game? there’s literally nothing even remotely similar to this

the reason i’m harping on this point is because one of my main wolftells used to be that i would just ignore reads on my slot as a wolf

I see the point, but this game is an outlier in… a lot of ways. People barely playing, etc.

[Vulgard]

Like, I had a pretty hard wolfread on Lemonfairy in the game you’re describing, but you’re saying she was towny there.

Idk, maybe this does mean I’m wrong here by some weird logic? But I don’t see her with either of the players I’m pushing and I also just explained why I think it would be weird if she was with May.

I’m noticing you decided not to unpair her with Nokiel and I kinda see why.

[Vulgard]

@Arctic

lemon/may or kanave/nokiel
not particularly useful i know

Wait, so you don’t think it could be Lemon/Nokiel? I might’ve misinterpreted, then.

[Vulgard]

@Arctic

@Vulgard

How do I convince you I’m town, then?

that’s the neat part

It’s the biggest weakness of my towngame, so to speak, I can just always be a wolf to most people. And I get it, but also… well. Not sure what to do about it, haha.

[Arctic]

if the team is kanave/nokiel then by poisoning people like jar then their plan has been to get the louder players to tinfoil each other but the issue is they haven’t been trying to push that narrative at all

kanave has been trying to kill eliza and nokiel

nokiel has been trying to kill… i don’t even remember who they have been trying to kill but i do remember they made a post claiming they believed the wolves’ plan was to make the louder voices suspect each other (which i am considering was just TMI) but saying this would be a complete blunder of what they were trying to achieve

[Arctic]

no i don’t think it’s lemon and nokiel because i don’t think lemon tries to cfd kanave if the wagons are 4-beancat and 3-nokiel at eod2 because that risks nokiel dying in a way that gets her 0 credit

[Lemonfairy]

@Arctic

where has this been this game? there’s literally nothing even remotely similar to this

the reason i’m harping on this point is because one of my main wolftells used to be that i would just ignore reads on my slot as a wolf

that was a bad game for me and you’re literally using that singular game to meta read me REEEEE

other games:

town games

GOAT^2 - Game Thread (5/15) - Day 6 - Mafia wonnered
'80s Wild Overhaul FM - TOWN VICTORY
Starcraft Overhaul FM - GAME OVER (Mafia Victory)

scum games

https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/threads/37542-BETRAYAL-AT-MAFIA-UNIVERSE
this is the most recent but it’s a mash

@Arctic

and this literally just feels like wolf POV

this is just confbias

[Vulgard]

I’ll be honest, I don’t know what they’re doing this game regardless of alignment, they’ve been playing really strangely and doing bizarre things.