Questions FM - GAME OVER (Mafia Victory)

[MokaJoe]

Not sure about current wagon, but I think Blizer is suspicious

[Hippopablompoyeetus]

Eh that is true about leafia

[Aelin]

@Aelin

@JakeTheWolfie

/vote EliThePsycho

I have received irrefutable evidence that Eli is a member of the “Mafia”

@JakeTheWolfie

One hour has passed.

The Mafia are sated.

We must kill them now.

@JakeTheWolfie

Ok this is conftown, doesn’t even know what the mafia is.

@JakeTheWolfie

So, where is everyone? It feels a little aerated in this thread.

@JakeTheWolfie

We should start consolidating votes here.

/vote Hippopablompoyeetus @Sun_Tzu

@JakeTheWolfie

Me, killing the town’s only good player.

overall awkwardness, feels vaguely disjointed from thread

@JakeTheWolfie

I think that if you don’t mind having a little ambiguity, you can figure out your exact role type with only 3 questions.

@JakeTheWolfie

It is complicated, but it is quite elegant.

I’m not saying that you need to follow it, you can ask whatever 4 questions you want. I’m just saying that this is probably the easiest way to narrow down your role type to 1 or 2 options.

@JakeTheWolfie

We are nearing the 200 post mark, which means that the wild flailing about will need to end, and instead normal flailing about will take place, as we actually determine who is or isn’t scum.

@JakeTheWolfie

What is my opinion on Kiiruma/Leafia?

@JakeTheWolfie

Could you elaborate on this a bit?

@JakeTheWolfie

What do you reckon the alignment of the mech-talkers might be?

@JakeTheWolfie

I would argue that, while it is possible for scum to do that, it is not very probable. Keeping such a thing a secret would give the scum a substantial boost above the town.

In this particular case, the information given was also timely, as in it was relephant to the topic at the time. If the scum did choose to reveal it, it must not have been put up to vote, which means that the scum are not as organized as first thought.

@JakeTheWolfie

Sure, anyone could do what I did, and indeed they have tried, however it is up to me to convince and up to you to decide whether it is more likely to come from town than from scum.

Anyone can wagon anyone else, but there are certain wagons that would be highly beneficial for scum to chase, and so more likely that scum would chase them.

@JakeTheWolfie

In short, scum want to say what is possible, the town wants to discuss what is probable.

@JakeTheWolfie

I would like to see more from you, so do please read up on the game and report back with your thoughts.

helpfully unhelpful

@JakeTheWolfie

Do you, in good faith, believe that I would have been able to predict this argument, that I would have been able to predict that someone would have challenged my mech spec as being scummy, as it is mech spec?

i think this quote alone is enough for me to call you scummy af lol, never mind the follow-ups
basically minimizes and then negates the read on you based off of “would i prepare for this lol”… which, one, i dont see why you couldn’t have, and two, it wouldnt have been necessary to prepare, just to be witty and quick

@JakeTheWolfie

Well, yes, that would be the reason why scum!jake would have chosen to reveal his method.

However, the downside to that is that it benefits the town as well, as opposed to keeping it a secret, which would have benefited the scum greatly.

@JakeTheWolfie

Well, if it only wastes the town’s resources, then how would I have been townread from it then?

[quote=“JakeTheWolfie, post:438, topic:995, full:true”]
Back on my laptop, let’s go through this.

Cutting down on a wall of quotes here

[quote=“Aelin, post:414, topic:995”]

@JakeTheWolfie

/vote EliThePsycho

I have received irrefutable evidence that Eli is a member of the “Mafia”
[/quote]

@JakeTheWolfie

One hour has passed.

The Mafia are sated.

We must kill them now.

@JakeTheWolfie

Ok this is conftown, doesn’t even know what the mafia is.

@JakeTheWolfie

So, where is everyone? It feels a little aerated in this thread.

@JakeTheWolfie

We should start consolidating votes here.

/vote Hippopablompoyeetus @Sun_Tzu

@JakeTheWolfie

Me, killing the town’s only good player.

overall awkwardness, feels vaguely disjointed from thread

I don’t see it, I think in the context of these posts, they fit well into the thread. Care to elaborate on this point?

[quote]

@JakeTheWolfie

I think that if you don’t mind having a little ambiguity, you can figure out your exact role type with only 3 questions.
[/quote]

@JakeTheWolfie

It is complicated, but it is quite elegant.

I’m not saying that you need to follow it, you can ask whatever 4 questions you want. I’m just saying that this is probably the easiest way to narrow down your role type to 1 or 2 options.

@JakeTheWolfie

We are nearing the 200 post mark, which means that the wild flailing about will need to end, and instead normal flailing about will take place, as we actually determine who is or isn’t scum.

@JakeTheWolfie

What is my opinion on Kiiruma/Leafia?

@JakeTheWolfie

Could you elaborate on this a bit?

@JakeTheWolfie

What do you reckon the alignment of the mech-talkers might be?

@JakeTheWolfie

I would argue that, while it is possible for scum to do that, it is not very probable. Keeping such a thing a secret would give the scum a substantial boost above the town.

In this particular case, the information given was also timely, as in it was relephant to the topic at the time. If the scum did choose to reveal it, it must not have been put up to vote, which means that the scum are not as organized as first thought.

@JakeTheWolfie

Sure, anyone could do what I did, and indeed they have tried, however it is up to me to convince and up to you to decide whether it is more likely to come from town than from scum.

Anyone can wagon anyone else, but there are certain wagons that would be highly beneficial for scum to chase, and so more likely that scum would chase them.

@JakeTheWolfie

In short, scum want to say what is possible, the town wants to discuss what is probable.

@JakeTheWolfie

I would like to see more from you, so do please read up on the game and report back with your thoughts.

helpfully unhelpful

Could you give a clearer example of this? The posts you quoted don’t seem particularly relevant or jointed to that point.

[quote]

@JakeTheWolfie

Do you, in good faith, believe that I would have been able to predict this argument, that I would have been able to predict that someone would have challenged my mech spec as being scummy, as it is mech spec?
[/quote]

i think this quote alone is enough for me to call you scummy af lol, never mind the follow-ups
basically minimizes and then negates the read on you based off of “would i prepare for this lol”… which, one, i dont see why you couldn’t have, and two, it wouldnt have been necessary to prepare, just to be witty and quick

Yeah, not particularly proud about this one. It was poorly crafted and poorly worded. Looking back on it, I probably should have said “Your argument relies on me being scum, it does not demonstrate that I am scum.”

@JakeTheWolfie

Well, yes, that would be the reason why scum!jake would have chosen to reveal his method.

However, the downside to that is that it benefits the town as well, as opposed to keeping it a secret, which would have benefited the scum greatly.
[/quote]

@JakeTheWolfie

Well, if it only wastes the town’s resources, then how would I have been townread from it then?

I think the following are two important contextual quotes.

@ElizaThePsycho

i think you would have been able to predict people townreading you for it

@ElizaThePsycho

disagree

it wouldn’t really help town that much
in fact, i’d say that it kinda wastes the questions tbh

The first response, from Eli, was that scum!jake would have been able to predict that his method would get him townread.
I responded saying that I agreed, and that would have been the reason why scum!jake would have revealed his method, but I later said in the same post that the downside to revealing the method would have been that the town would have benefited from it as well, as opposed to keeping it a secret for the scumteam to utilize by themselves.
Eli responded to this, saying that my method would not have actually helped, and in fact was a waste of questions.
I argued back that if it only wasted the town’s resources, then it wouldn’t have actually gotten me townread.
This argument continues on beyond the scope that I’ve described, I recommend that anyone interested go and read this argument in full, because that will give more context for these snippets of conversation, and will leave you less likely to misinterpret my quotes here as they are a part of a larger argument not shown
Now then, I feel like Aelin has indirectly misrepresented me here, as the two quotes she have chosen seem to contradict each other, when in context they are a reasonable response to my debate partner.

@Aelin

@JakeTheWolfie

I don’t see it, I think in the context of these posts, they fit well into the thread. Care to elaborate on this point?

Not especially, it’s just something I’m going to continue looking at moving forward. If you simply just don’t agree that they’re awkward, I’m not going to… convince you they are, lol

@JakeTheWolfie

Could you give a clearer example of this? The posts you quoted don’t seem particularly relevant or jointed to that point.

it seems like youre doing a lot to seem helpful without actually helping
i cant give more because, i dont know if youve noticed, this game is less than 500 posts long.

@JakeTheWolfie

Yeah, not particularly proud about this one. It was poorly crafted and poorly worded. Looking back on it, I probably should have said “Your argument relies on me being scum, it does not demonstrate that I am scum.”

ok

@JakeTheWolfie

I think the following are two important contextual quotes.

first off, i read the entire thing
i didnt say that they were scummy via them contradicting each other, i just wanted to point out that they were tonally bad and not a towny thought process because youre simply minimizing the point via… well, its not entirely a strawman, but it pretty much feels like it.

@JakeTheWolfie

Now then, I feel like Aelin has indirectly misrepresented me here, as the two quotes she have chosen seem to contradict each other, when in context they are a reasonable response to my debate partner.

Do you think I did this intentionally and/or in bad faith? Don’t just reply “yes” if that’s the case, say which one.

[quote=“JakeTheWolfie, post:441, topic:995, full:true”]

[quote=“Aelin, post:440, topic:995”]

@JakeTheWolfie

Could you give a clearer example of this? The posts you quoted don’t seem particularly relevant or jointed to that point.
[/quote]

it seems like youre doing a lot to seem helpful without actually helping
i cant give more because, i dont know if youve noticed, this game is less than 500 posts long.

If I am doing a lot of things which seem helpful but aren’t, could you provide me an example of that, and an explanation of why?

[quote]

@JakeTheWolfie

I think the following are two important contextual quotes.
[/quote]

first off, i read the entire thing
i didnt say that they were scummy via them contradicting each other, i just wanted to point out that they were tonally bad and not a towny thought process because youre simply minimizing the point via… well, its not entirely a strawman, but it pretty much feels like it.

Ah, I misinterpreted your angle there.
It doesn’t ping me as being particularly non-town, the first quote seems like a town member is thinking through the actions of a scum member in a similar position, and what they would need to consider
The second quote seems like a reasonable followup question, as in the town member is essentially asking “Why would the scum reveal it if it would have been a bad outlook?”

It’s not exactly a strawman, but it does look like I am elaborating on an assumption that might have gone unspoken had I not brought it up.

@JakeTheWolfie

Now then, I feel like Aelin has indirectly misrepresented me here, as the two quotes she have chosen seem to contradict each other, when in context they are a reasonable response to my debate partner.
[/quote]

Do you think I did this intentionally and/or in bad faith? Don’t just reply “yes” if that’s the case, say which one.

Well I don’t know if you did it intentionally or not, maybe I do think you did it in good faith. What I do know is that it looks like misrepresentation.

@Aelin

@JakeTheWolfie

If I am doing a lot of things which seem helpful but aren’t, could you provide me an example of that, and an explanation of why?

i just quoted the ones i saw
i cant tell if youre just being oblivious or are just trying to annoy me into putting reading you off

@JakeTheWolfie

The second quote seems like a reasonable followup question, as in the town member is essentially asking “Why would the scum reveal it if it would have been a bad outlook?”

i mean
you dont need every single person to townread you
you just need enough to go “oh, he’s putting in effort. guess they’re town.” so that youre not on the chopping block

@JakeTheWolfie

Well I don’t know if you did it intentionally or not, maybe I do think you did it in good faith. What I do know is that it looks like misrepresentation.

GTH, which one? Is it bad faith or good faith?

[quote=“JakeTheWolfie, post:453, topic:995, full:true”]

[quote=“Aelin, post:449, topic:995”]

@JakeTheWolfie

If I am doing a lot of things which seem helpful but aren’t, could you provide me an example of that, and an explanation of why?
[/quote]

i just quoted the ones i saw
i cant tell if youre just being oblivious or are just trying to annoy me into putting reading you off

I am genuinely curious here, and I am honestly trying to see this FYPOV. Could you give me an explanation as to why I seemed helpful, when I was not?

[quote]

@JakeTheWolfie

The second quote seems like a reasonable followup question, as in the town member is essentially asking “Why would the scum reveal it if it would have been a bad outlook?”
[/quote]

i mean
you dont need every single person to townread you
you just need enough to go “oh, he’s putting in effort. guess they’re town.” so that youre not on the chopping block

Yeah, that’s a fair point.

@JakeTheWolfie

Well I don’t know if you did it intentionally or not, maybe I do think you did it in good faith. What I do know is that it looks like misrepresentation.
[/quote]

GTH, which one? Is it bad faith or good faith?

I’m not sure what your intentions were. If I had to say, I think that you were engaged in a good-faithed analysis of me.

[quote=“Aelin, post:478, topic:995, full:true”]

@JakeTheWolfie

I am genuinely curious here, and I am honestly trying to see this FYPOV. Could you give me an explanation as to why I seemed helpful, when I was not?

[quote=“Aelin, post:414, topic:995”]

@JakeTheWolfie

I think that if you don’t mind having a little ambiguity, you can figure out your exact role type with only 3 questions.
[/quote]

@JakeTheWolfie

It is complicated, but it is quite elegant.

I’m not saying that you need to follow it, you can ask whatever 4 questions you want. I’m just saying that this is probably the easiest way to narrow down your role type to 1 or 2 options.

theatrical

@JakeTheWolfie

We are nearing the 200 post mark, which means that the wild flailing about will need to end, and instead normal flailing about will take place, as we actually determine who is or isn’t scum.

both awkward and theatrical, you dont have much personal follow-up either and your leap on hippo and strong pushing on it which is reasonable if youre trying to pressure someone but doing it while stating youre trying to consolidate is, fmpov, not the greatest of looks
on top of that its a “hey this is the direction we should head in” without actually pushing people towards it

@Aelin

@JakeTheWolfie

What is my opinion on Kiiruma/Leafia?
[/quote]

@JakeTheWolfie

Could you elaborate on this a bit?

@JakeTheWolfie

What do you reckon the alignment of the mech-talkers might be?

@JakeTheWolfie

I would like to see more from you, so do please read up on the game and report back with your thoughts.

all of these are technically fine by themselves
however when there are more questions to other people than reads of your own when youre trying to take an active stance in thread it reads as trying to win towncred by 1 on 1 interactions

@JakeTheWolfie

In short, scum want to say what is possible, the town wants to discuss what is probable.

blanket generalizations that i would say are actually incorrect as a whole as a way to defend yourself while simultaneously trying to go “push” people towards something without any actual momentum

@JakeTheWolfie

@Aelin

@JakeTheWolfie

I am genuinely curious here, and I am honestly trying to see this FYPOV. Could you give me an explanation as to why I seemed helpful, when I was not?
[/quote]

[quote=“Aelin, post:414, topic:995”]

@JakeTheWolfie

I think that if you don’t mind having a little ambiguity, you can figure out your exact role type with only 3 questions.
[/quote]

@JakeTheWolfie

It is complicated, but it is quite elegant.

I’m not saying that you need to follow it, you can ask whatever 4 questions you want. I’m just saying that this is probably the easiest way to narrow down your role type to 1 or 2 options.

theatrical

I will admit that this isn’t entirely helpful, and might even be considered irrelephant and unnecessary. Granted.

@JakeTheWolfie

We are nearing the 200 post mark, which means that the wild flailing about will need to end, and instead normal flailing about will take place, as we actually determine who is or isn’t scum.
[/quote]

both awkward and theatrical, you dont have much personal follow-up either and your leap on hippo and strong pushing on it which is reasonable if youre trying to pressure someone but doing it while stating youre trying to consolidate is, fmpov, not the greatest of looks
on top of that its a “hey this is the direction we should head in” without actually pushing people towards it

This post in particular was meant to be a semi-fluff semi-warning that we should try to ease out of RVS.
My vote on Hippo was partially for pressure, but mainly for consolidation. In the back of my mind, I wanted to see more from them, therefore I voted them.

@Aelin

@JakeTheWolfie

What is my opinion on Kiiruma/Leafia?
[/quote]

@JakeTheWolfie

Could you elaborate on this a bit?

@JakeTheWolfie

What do you reckon the alignment of the mech-talkers might be?

@JakeTheWolfie

I would like to see more from you, so do please read up on the game and report back with your thoughts.

all of these are technically fine by themselves
however when there are more questions to other people than reads of your own when youre trying to take an active stance in thread it reads as trying to win towncred by 1 on 1 interactions

I don’t really feel like giving my own reads away when interacting with someone. I want them to have as little information as possible to try and tailor their responses to please me.
When asked, I will (and have) given my thoughts on particular players, however I do not believe that it is appropriate to spoil my conversation partner with what I am thinking unless I am asked about it. This is because when I am the interrogator, my opinions and thoughts shouldn’t bleed in. The conversation isn’t about me, it’s about the person I am talking to. I know my thoughts, but I don’t know the thoughts of others, which is why I try not to say what my thoughts are.
If you wish to ask me about my reads, you are free to do so, and at any time. I may not be able to do it immediately, but I will try to give you my reads (or any other thoughts that I may have.)

@JakeTheWolfie

In short, scum want to say what is possible, the town wants to discuss what is probable.
[/quote]

blanket generalizations that i would say are actually incorrect as a whole as a way to defend yourself while simultaneously trying to go “push” people towards something without any actual momentum

I’m not sure where I got this from (probably a wiki article from MS), but I don’t see how I was pushing anyone towards anything here.

here’s the full interaction @Hippopablompoyeetus
yes, i am aware there are probably dozens of bricked quotes
no, i do not care

@JakeTheWolfie

You know that I do sleep, yes? That, even if I dedicate 100% of my time to this game, that does not mean I can go 24 hours without sleep or breaks.

yep
thats why i was gone, it would be silly for me to assume that you can stay awake 24/7 as a mafia playing machine. everyone knows arete is the only one of those

@JakeTheWolfie

Why is hopping on the GQ wagon bad optics? Moreover, why should I care that it’s bad optics?

because you were originally fine with them, and now because of a small amount of questioning you’ve decided to fan the flames with some air and propane
dont know how you fan something with a liquid but nonetheless
you should care because im l o u d
and loud = dangerous, here :)

[Hippopablompoyeetus]

The lack of any classic strong townleader in this game makes it hars to just pop in and know who to sheep

[Aelin]

Omni-busdriver Treestumpizer Event-Only-Vigilante Jailkeeper

[Aelin]

its rough because the closest thing is me
and the only comparable person is someone who i think is scum

[YoubutWorse]

im not reading all of that
good for u tho
or sorry that happened

[Hippopablompoyeetus]

Omg use summary next time or I’m vigging u

[Aelin]

whenever i use summary i get ignored, so, no.

[Blizer]

Aelin

what the fuck lmao

[Aelin]

Hm?

[Aelin]

I was quoting Jake and I’s interaction.

[Blizer]

Its sooo long and its broken

its hurts my eyes

[Aelin]

shrug
Suffer.

[Hippopablompoyeetus]

Who’s that?

[Aelin]

… Jake.

[MokaJoe]

@Blizer

im just thinking kinda based on setup

is it 2 mafia with super powerful abilities or is it 3 mafia with decent power

cause its a 13er, and while it is usually a 10v3 most of the time, there could be exceptions, and i can see this game being one depending on the power of Mafia PR

Thinking about this on Day 1 seem unusual to me

@Blizer

hell there could be a lost wolf, and we dont even know actually lmao

This could very well be a soft claim of lone wolf especially with “is it 2 or 3” talk

[Aelin]

Moka, I have two questions for you:

1. What’s your experience with Forum Mafia and Mafia as a whole?
2. Are you ESL, by any chance?

[Hippopablompoyeetus]

I’ve only read Jakes posts on me but they seemed pretty agendaless in isolation tbh.

Not sure I buy the hang jake train that much

[MokaJoe]

I played some games before and I am ESL