Stratagem-15 FM - MAFIA VICTORY

[Zugzwang]

well. that was going through gar’s posts for things from wind that he replyed to / quoted. so it could miss things from gar that wind quoted

[Zugzwang]

!!!
ok while getting wind’s posts on gar there’s some major !!!s there

[Zugzwang]

some posts from wind on gar (stopped like halfway through tho)

Stratagem-15 FM - Day 2 (9/11) - #956 by WindwardAway
Stratagem-15 FM - Day 2 (9/11) - #994 by WindwardAway
Stratagem-15 FM - Day 2 (9/11) - #995 by WindwardAway
Stratagem-15 FM - Day 2 (9/11) - #996 by WindwardAway
Stratagem-15 FM - Day 2 (9/11) - #997 by WindwardAway
Stratagem-15 FM - Day 2 (9/11) - #998 by WindwardAway
Stratagem-15 FM - Day 2 (9/11) - #999 by WindwardAway
Stratagem-15 FM - Day 2 (9/11) - #1000 by WindwardAway
Stratagem-15 FM - Day 2 (9/11) - #1001 by WindwardAway

[Zugzwang]

@WindwardAway

I’m gonna iso garfooled while I still have a couple minutes

@WindwardAway

No read on Zugzwang, huh

@WindwardAway

Nor lol

@WindwardAway

Don’t remember if I answered this earlier btw
I don’t really disagree with it anymore, I’ve looped around to thinking Caitlin might be town
But at the time, I disagreed purely because I thought Caitlin’s posts were scummy.

@WindwardAway

VOTE: Garfooled

@WindwardAway

I don’t have a good track record of reading Garfooled but I am going off Abbi’s theory and think that Garfooled is more likely to be scum than Caitlin.

@WindwardAway

Since you guys keep asking me for vote explanations.

@WindwardAway

Also, does Garfooled usually hold onto their reads for long? Like do they make reads and not move them around too much, or does their readlist shift a lot when they’re town and solving? Because Caitlin has been Garfooled’s primary push all day and they’re the only one still voting her.

So here, we see Wind give only one reason for her read on Gar. And that reason is that Gar’s been pushing Cait consistently.

@WindwardAway

Not sure what to make of that cause it’s not me and it is very unlikely to be Abbi
I’m ok with throwing Guava and lol in as our wagon options but I’m still a bit iffy on both of them. Since we’re on this topic, I’ll say that I searched lol’s ISO for towntells and didn’t find any.

Here, despite being currently voting Gar, she doesn’t push him at all. And given that Guava was town and Lol is probably town… yeah.

@WindwardAway

I had this (unvoiced) theory earlier that it was 2 of Gar/guava/lol but I honestly can’t tell you where i got that impression from
lol has a couple things that lead me into association reads but I can’t say for sure unless he flips scum
Gar has a lot of fluffposts but it’s not unusual for them, I just don’t know what to do with that
And guava is just self-presing on me but I don’t think his pushes today have been particularly great

Worse though, is this post. This is just entirely contradicting what she said earlier on Gar, and giving a reason that makes no sense. Like “oh uh they did something that’s not unusual for them and idk what to do with it but uh that makes them scum!!!111!!!11!!!”. Whereas if you look at the reasoning for Lol and Guava, it’s more solid. Again despite still voting Gar here. And she doesn’t mention the read about Gar sticking to his push on Cait, which you think she’d mention given that it is a far more convincing point than the one here.

[Host_Account_5]

Votecount as of P#2611

Arctic (2): Psyx, lol
Zugzwang (2): May, Luka
PrincessAbigail (1): Arctic
May (1): WindwardAway
WindwardAway (1): Zugzwang

Not Voting (2): Garfooled, PrincessAbigail

[Garfooled]

I want to reply to some of this
Do you want me to?
I also want to hear Wind’s thoughts about this
Surprisingly
Or not surprisingly (to me)
We are not paired

[Garfooled]

I feel that if I do respond to some of this,
I’m giving an “out” to Wind

[Garfooled]

I understand again
My slot is frustrating
But I won’t, I won’t be as you say “defeatist”
I will try to play the game
Maybe not now
But I will play as soon as I can gather the energy and motivation

[Garfooled]

Please don’t take this as AtE
IT IS NOT
Like,
I’m not sharing much of what’s going on with me
In fact unlike D1, I have more free time to do what I should be doing: reading
This is me not feeling motivated and wanting to do other things
I want to do something tonight that doesn’t require concentration
Chill you know?
Not read 2k+ posts
I could do what Zug asked and primarily check Wind
But here’s the thing, if I check Wind, I will also be checking what they replied to + will also be utterly lost because I’m not aware of the threadstate
So… I want to read everything
And then do ISOs

[lol]

im now winning and my opp has 7 turns to bring it back

downside is the battleship is no longer pogging since there are no enemies…

[WindwardAway]

@Garfooled

besides the whole preplanned thing
faking PR
and then using that as an explanation to be a wallflower d1
Wind is town to me
the whole PR thing though
I don’t like how it feels so formulaic to get TR

The point wasn’t that I wanted to be TR’d, I just wanted to bait a kill or vanillizer from wolves

[WindwardAway]

@Zugzwang

It does let them be low-accountability for their d1 play later on, as well as give them an excuse to lay lower*, and if they got more pressure they could always reveal their plan. Also, they may have (reasonably) expected there to be more scummy people d1, resulting in less pressure on them for their play. And of course wolves don’t always play optimally.

*given their accusation of me for trying to avoid looking bad from being on the guava wagon… I again wonder whether they’re projecting

Not really sure I expected more scummy people on D1, I mean, either way I look at it, I was mostly outside of my town meta. I wasn’t exactly following my own wolf meta, either, I was just trying to scope out my reads quietly while maintaining PR cover cause I hoped people would believe me when I hypoclaimed for just one day (and I mightve maintained that, too, if I hadn’t literally picked lol as my fake check, but my fault for not catching up before posting that).

Am I projecting? Like. Would wolf!me vote off-wagon while town!Guava goes over? First off, in general maybe sometimes, but this time obviously not. Secondly, Im not wolfing. The thing that looks good for you from your avoidance of the guava wagon is just specifically that you were tunnelling Abbi when there wasn’t really anyone else interested in her, but that’s fakeable from a good wolf (and yes, this is projecting, I’ve done it). And you did say you turned that read around while ISOing her, but as I said before, that’s also fakeable.

[WindwardAway]

@Zugzwang

all 2 non-joking interactions in wind/gar

@WindwardAway

I would normally hate this take, but setup says we only have two scum in the game so it’s actually OK this time lol

Does this seem overly self-aware?
And could I ask what you would normally hate about that post @Windward
I think if I get your thought process on this, I could read into you better

Yeah but you didn’t read my response to it. I agree Garfooled sorta threw softball questions my way, it didn’t escape my attention, but that’s also kinda why I don’t feel like they’ve actually been solving and why they’re still in my poe.

[WindwardAway]

@Zugzwang

And she doesn’t mention the read about Gar sticking to his push on Cait, which you think she’d mention given that it is a far more convincing point than the one here.

Because I forgot about it, until now when I’m seeing it and you’ve reminded me. And you’re gonna ask why I forgot about this, and I’m going to tell you it’s because i don’t find anything Gar has done to be particularly memorable. If gar were my scum partner I would’ve at least remembered a reason to push them, if I were trying to distance. I don’t remember because I’m not wolfing with gar. They’re just straight poe for me because I don’t think they’re towny enough, but people keep telling me they’re super towny and I’m wondering what I’ve missed. Everything so far that I’ve seen people call towny from gar is something I don’t consider to be alignment indicative, and that’s a matter of opinion.

[WindwardAway]

Yo do you have any current scumreads or whatever

[WindwardAway]

VOTE: Zugzwang

Undecided whether I like this vote, but I don’t like the Arctic wagon.

[Psyx]

@WindwardAway

I mean, either way I look at it, I was mostly outside of my town meta. I wasn’t exactly following my own wolf meta, either

Why do people often use meta when defending their actions?

Explaining why town!you thought it was a good idea is enough — since you intentionally did something, you must have already weighed the pros and cons and believed other people would find it reasonable if you explain it to them.

[Psyx]

If I did a crazy reaction test, I would have my own rationale for doing it and can explain to everyone why it made sense to do so without going: “oh, but wolf!Psyx would never ever do RTs!”

[WindwardAway]

@Psyx

@WindwardAway

I mean, either way I look at it, I was mostly outside of my town meta. I wasn’t exactly following my own wolf meta, either

Why do people often use meta when defending their actions?

Explaining why town!you thought it was a good idea is enough — since you intentionally did something, you must have already weighed the pros and cons and believed other people would find it reasonable if you explain it to them.

1. I was pretty sick and didn’t feel like threadcamping to begin with, like I usually do
2. I like playing around vanilla roles to fake-soft PR if I can
3. If I overdid it and sounded too wolfy, I wouldn’t be nightkilled
4. If it went the way I wanted it to ideally, town would think I’m slightly scummy and wolves would think I was the cop
5. I usually spout my reads very openly and get told that I’m too hedgy with them, so I thought if I’m doing this gambit I might as well just try not to give reads at all until I’m moderately confident in them.

[WindwardAway]

@Psyx

If I did a crazy reaction test, I would have my own rationale for doing it and can explain to everyone why it made sense to do so without going: “oh, but wolf!Psyx would never ever do RTs!”

Tbf I’ve faked RTs as a wolf before
Not always successfully but I definitely have
But none of what I did yesterday/start of today was an RT, it was just PR cover plus me being a lazy arse.