The Binding of Isaac Mad17 - Game Over (Terminal Lucidity) [Mafia Win]

[Apocryphal]

I’m not going to dispute that

[Apocryphal]

But there’s a difference between baffling and basically throwing

[Apocryphal]

And like

It’s not likely I’m completely discounting him being a wolf

I do think it’s possible, for much the same reason why I think you could be wolfing

He’s escaped death by elimination several times

[Apocryphal]

I just hate this situation where I’m having to spin wheels, trying to figure out what the truth is, without even a single fucking wolf flip. Just hypotheticals upon hypotheticals and the fact that everyone has some other person going “this person isn’t a wolf, trust me”

[Frostwolf103]

@Apocryphal

He’s escaped death by elimination several times

Also the mafia want to make sure I die for my failure, Bionic didn’t fail. You did read my comment about Derps right, if I healed him instead of Tutuu, then I am no better position. I was considering Derps but I think Tutuu is better target to be protected/stopped

[Zugzwang]

ok read up

@WindwardAway:

@WindwardAway

On another note, I find Zugzwang to have wolfy EoDs. The rest of his posts look fine, but the way he’s been making his final calls at EoD for two days now is really suspicious to me. He’s my main powerwolf candidate.

(This post appears to be saying it is wolfy that I make my decision late? Or it could be saying that you didn’t like the way I made my calls, rather than the fact I made them at eod. Regardless, this former is easy to refute so I’ll do that anyway.)

@WindwardAway

That’s why I didn’t like his eods

D1 was like, he didn’t like the progression but decided he wasn’t opposed to hippo flipping

Yesterday was more on the nose with something like “sorry sulit you’re the best flip” which sounded extremely wolfy to me

And so I wanted to track him, if I hadn’t successfully baited the roleblocker away from the vig

But tbf I probably didn’t since the vig is probably a wolf and knew I wasn’t the vig

For better or for worse, this is just how I play. I am often indecisive as town, and this being a 17 player game only makes that worse, because it’s harder to properly evaluate everyone.

Here we see EOD1 of TADC mafia, where I was town, and I don’t feel great about any of the wagons (which, here, were Garfooled/Pandora/Someone). I also don’t make a decision until very late, and don’t vote either. And, even though I consider a flash wagon to Rhea, I end up declining this. I don’t make any other effort to change the wagons, and similar to here, I decide that Someone is the best flip, but not confidently.

@Zugzwang

mmmmmmmm

I still don’t feel great about any options

if Rhea is w then Someone is definitely town

but w!Rhea doesn’t necessarily mean w!Pandora either

I’d consider Rhea themselves, but they’re probably findable eventually if town, unlike Someone

@Magnus

Rhea might be the most informational kill, all things considered.

@Zugzwang

if they’re wolf? very much so

if town though not really

(context from D2 below)

@Zugzwang

@tutuu

this was posted 5 hours before EoD. how come you didn’t vote anybody after this?

wasn’t sure till near the end

when I had settled on Someone, he was already top wagon, and I figured there’s more to be gained by letting things play out with close wagons, rather than making the result look decided

---

Another example from TADC:

@Zugzwang

nyaaaaaaaaaaa I realize my vote probably doesn’t matter here

but also I don’t want to look dumb being on the wrong wagon either way

Above was 30 minutes before EoD.

Then I stop posting as I’m in my notes, and…

@Zugzwang

nyaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

attempted to compile my thoughts here, hopefully not forgetting anything

|Magnus town|Magnus wolf|Gar town|Gar wolf|

|—|—|—|—|

|Tutuu read|changes reads D3 how a wolf has to, and townreads Gar without convincing people as a wolf has to|towny perspective - 1132|if you were to be town|

|Puts Bys in bottom 4 at eod1|Leafia nightkill|Magnus experience read|pushes rhea = required push for w!Gar today|

||Good luck post - believes they get nightkilled for questionable reasons||Rhea read|

||Magnus hitting vig makes more sense than Gar doing it||Bystander’s early push|

I make this post 1.5 minutes before EOD.

@Zugzwang

this is. mainly for myself if I’m gonna be honest

I wouldn’t be too surprised if Gar was wolf here, but like

VOTE: Magnus feels more likely

Then, I tie the wagons 2-2, 30 seconds before EOD, while hedging.

---

@WindwardAway

D1 looked like he was completely fine with the final gamestate even though he expressed annoyance

@WindwardAway

Plus Zug’s behavior around eod. He was always there, saying it sucks that over half the game couldn’t be at eod, and then doing nothing to change the wagons.

I wasn’t going “these wagons are bad, I think X/Y/Z would be better choices”. I was going “I’m not confident in these wagons, but I don’t really have better alternatives, though I’d be willing to hear cases for a flash wagon”.

Also, yes, I still feel it sucks that most people can’t be on at EOD. I don’t see how that relates to anything else in your case though. I felt that way because I couldn’t talk to a lot of people, especially those I townread (this was moreso an issue EOD1, though it was still partially a thing EOD2):

@Zugzwang

@WindwardAway idk if you’re still here but I want your input on this if you are

also @Rhea nya

And because wolves can reasonably fakeclaim a taken town role if it’s not there to CC (EOD2):

@Zugzwang

and it’d be nice if the game was actually here so we could maybe get a CC if it exists

---

@WindwardAway

D2 he settled for sulit with an apology that looked like a wolf speaking to town

@WindwardAway

Yesterday was more on the nose with something like “sorry sulit you’re the best flip” which sounded extremely wolfy to me

At EOD2, I thought (and I still think) that Bionic is a wolf. But he claimed cop. On the other hand, I TRed Frost, and found Sulit mildly towny:

@Zugzwang

I like the elaboration of what led them to do it here

@sulit

you’re right about the role but i targeted bystander bc I was tinfoiling at midnight

So yeah, I was pretty much going “I don’t wolfread you but you’re a better kill than Frost”. I was not apologizing though.

@WindwardAway

Zug’s poking and prodding looks really good but I think he’s consistently been wolfy and wolfsided at eod which is why I think he’s just the deepwolf we’re looking for

I have not “consistently wolfsided at EOD”. If Phraze is wolf, then I wolfsided at EOD1. And if Frost is wolf, then I wolfsided at EOD2. But you don’t believe either of those, afaict.

Also, if Bionic is wolf, which we both find likely, then I forced him to claim at EOD2.

[Zugzwang]

@WindwardAway

I think the tutuu kill, if it came from a wolf, might also implicate him somewhat because tutuu was the only one who had expressed a strong tinfoil on him multiple times.

you’ve basically refuted this yourself:

@WindwardAway

You wouldn’t know this but I don’t kill my only pusher as wolf, it draws too much attention to me. Especially if my aim is to go deep!

though, in your case you’re likely powerwolfing if you’re a wolf, rather than trying to go deep. whereas you’ve said I’m deepwolfing:

@WindwardAway

I really think Zug is deepwolfing and hasn’t needed to powerwolf because town has been pushing mislunches

Also, note that tutuu had put me in their townreads after a while.

---

@WindwardAway

Lightly. But tutuu said if Zug doesn’t start getting pelts we should be looking at him
and he’s 0/2 right now

Tutuu never said this.

[Apocryphal]

Seriously

This game would be so much easier if we had a wolf flip

[Zugzwang]

makes me think of that sorc17er

[Apocryphal]

Things especially suck since it’s obvious to everyone at this point that the town core that was crafted D1/d2 had to have a wolf or two

[sheepsaysmeep]

stop dooming

[Apocryphal]

The one where I had three of the wolves, two of which in correct difference checks on d2 and that we only lost because of a meta misclear?

[Apocryphal]

I cannot

[Apocryphal]

We are two misexes away from losing, and no closer to a solved game because not even the greencheck we have is particularly trustworthy

[Zugzwang]

well
I wouldn’t say we only lost because of a meta misclear
that misclear was probably enough to decide the game, but we made a lot of mistakes before that

[Apocryphal]

I mean, yeah, we literally got down to literal actual Lylo against a full wolf team

And then we clawed our way to f3

[Apocryphal]

I really don’t know how to feel about these wagons

Like I agree with most of them existing

But I hate them all being tied

[sheepsaysmeep]

u know what that means!!! it means we’re cooked!!

[Frostwolf103]

sulit (5): WindwardAway, bystander, Zugzwang, tutuu, Luxy
Frostwolf103 (4): Marluna, Bionic, sulit, sheepsaysmeep
Bionic (1): SirDerpsAlot
Apocryphal (1): Phraze
LittleLee (1): Frostwolf103
SirDerpsAlot (1): Apocryphal

Not Voting (2): LittleLee, Creature

[Apocryphal]

That’s been obvious since about half way through d2