Wild West FM 2 (2/25) - Town wins!

[Jar]

@Jane what makes you think zenon is town

[Jane]

So many reasons

Their reads have been great all game, they’ve pushed and killed wolves, their self-doubt and emotions feel genuine and their attitude in general, it doesn’t make sense for them to act this way as a wolf.

I could quote all of this but that would be like 300-400 quotes and I’m not dying that.

[Jar]

@guavagudetama @Zenon @O.kazo what are your thoughts on jane pushing me? do you think jane is mafia with zenon?

[Jar]

oops i pinged zenon in there too

[Zenon]

@Jane

I could quote all of this but that would be like 300-400 quotes and I’m not dying that.

Maybe a couple examples cause I’m too lazy to look at my own iso

[Jane]

Wtf lmao

[Zenon]

Did i break the internet lol

[Jane]

@Jane

Their reads have been great all game, they’ve pushed and killed wolves

@Zenon

@Arogame123

I do kinda think particle genuinely believes in their reads/pushes and if they’re town, I think the people attempting to push him for the notion of “he’s trolling/blast him” is kinda scummy.

There is zero thought anyone thinks that the wolves all outted because of a really awful take d1 that any half decent wolf would just laugh off

@Zenon

@Arctic

either particleman is a wolf ez dub lol or wolves are probably outting rn and pushing on him and i will look cool for calling it out as so

There is 0% chance a single wolf outted to push this spot lol

@Zenon

@Arctic

great crosspost but this feels retrospective and lacking to me

Its not

It boils down to a simple philosophy

Is this something a wolf does?

My brain says nope. Okay.

Does town do this? Brain says yes.

Okay why. Brain says PM is a problem for town irregardless of his alignment and hes going to frustrate certain subsects of towny players

Would town push PM regardless of their feelings on his alignment? Some would

Would wolfs? Likely not he is a great distraction he will burn the thread down and will cause chaos and sew confusion also he could just be mafia

Answer is this town for Eliza to do. Yes.

Than do that with other players

Tada. You have a read.

@Zenon

@Arctic

eevee has not done anything AI

arogame is probably being townread too easily. i don’t dislike anything he’s posted but nothing really stood out to me much either

so i wouldn’t be surprised if either of these were wrong

Aro is wolfy to me so…i agree

@Zenon

@guavagudetama

Hey, that’s my line!

You said that all of ParticleMan’s scumreads are wrong but how could you possibly know that without any flips unless you were scum
(I understand that this is kind of contradicting itself because one of his scumreads is YOU but you’re obviously not going to say that you agree with yourself getting scumread)

Because like look at who’s being pushed and tell me how any of them are actually being wolfy lol

@Zenon

@ElizaThePsycho

actually nvm am considering shooting wazza

I hate this less but shoot Leafia pls

@Zenon

@Zorvo

I had them paired as a wolf with Aro based on Wazza pushing Iaafr after they pushed Aro and backed out.

And this was ALL before Zenon shot Aro.

Huh. You can shoot Wazza actually. Or Leafia lol

@Zenon

@Arctic

i regret this list

a bit

Huh. Fuck.

@Zenon

@Rajidae

ngl i’m still paranoid about Aro being a likely bus but i’ll leave that be for now

I agree that like exactly one wolf shot Aro

@Zenon

@Zorvo

Resolve Magnus, Zenon or Raji tbh.

/Shoot and put one of their names in and ping host.

Literally throwing

@Zenon

@Zenon

Kay.

Frost and you both need to be resolved

I’m betting T and T

More likely won’t in frost that’s a thread state read not an actual me read but in a game state where wolves lost Aro likely to bussing and wazza to itas there’s zero shot if Frost is wolf someone isn’t tryong to save them but they’ve been a run away wagon all day

@Zenon

@Garfooled

/shoot Bradland @Italy

Fecking yolo it man

My god why are we all trying to be a hero.

@Zenon

Legacy

Raji town
Zorvo town ish
Eliza town
Magnus town ish
Frost town
Bread town

@Zenon

@Zorvo

If your town you’re being garbage when your consistently pushing and tunneling me.

Homie I’m not being garbage my reads have been literally so fucking good.

Like why are all my top reads getting plowed through lol.

@Zenon

@Zorvo

@Kork

I’m not really sure if I should shoot, when I don’t exactly know what’s going on as I am not caught up in all the backreading I would have to do.
[/quote]

Shoot within my pile please.

Shoot May or Eevee

@Zenon

Bread wagon is a crime Eevee and may wagons dying again is a crime.

VOTE: May

@Zenon

@Garfooled

I want to shoot Jaiden

Pls don’t

@Zenon

@Jaiden

whats the deal with the consensus may scumread btw

i feel like ive managed to completely miss that

Is it consensus cause their wagon keeps getting push back

@Zenon

@Zorvo

Pretty sure Brad and Eevee are both wolves as one of my wolves yesterday.

Oh right yeah this is never true btw

@Zenon

@Jaiden

i straight up dont think this makes sense which makes it really difficult to combat

yeah of course when im barely reading half the game theres gonna be people who benefit more from me doing whatever feels right in the moment
thats just how it works out. there was too many people it wasnt balanceable
look hard enough into anyones actions and there will be someone who benefits from them the most

This feels so genuine and towny pls don’t kill

@Zenon

@guavagudetama

what

There is no way this surprised you lol

@Zenon

@Jaiden

i quite literally had a vote lined up for bradland when this opened

why the fuck do you kill him here

There is no way lol

@Zenon

@guavagudetama

Zenon… I’m leaving Zenon until later because I have my suspicions but I think I’m tunneling

Zorvo is like, possible but the way he was acting makes me think he’s town

There is no fucking way after i spent all day yesterday protecting bread that this is real lol

@Zenon

God i am so fucking good this game

@Zenon

@Italy

|Kork Town Wagon|min, Jar, guavagudetama, BradLand (T), May (W), O.kazo, Arctic (T), dota, Jaiden| 9/9 |

|May Wolf Wagon|Zenon, ElizaThePsycho|2/9|
|BradLand town wagon|Zorvo|1/9|
|Arctic town wagon|eevee|1/9|
|Not Voting|Garfooled, Maple, Kork (T)|3|

Kork literally just never voted lol.

Okay.

Zorvo still tracks

Dota can be wolf if that’s true I think it clears Jaiden and Min. But I’m getting cold feet on this being right.

1 in Maple Gar? Probs.

Zorvo.
Dota Jaiden Min
Maple Gar

Hmm.

@Zenon

@Italy

EoD4 VC

|BradLand Town Wagon|May (W), Maple, Jar, guavagudetama| 4/9 |
|May Wolf Wagon|BradLand (T), Zenon, dota, O.kazo| 4/9 |
|dota|Garfooled|1/9|
|Maple|Zorvo|1/9|
|Not Voting|min, eevee, WindwardAway, Jaiden|4|

Continuing

Zorvo
Dota Jaiden Min
Maple Gar

I do think that wolfies probably just let May tie here in fact i think bussing was likely because of this VC and there’s no more than one on Brad so Maple Jar Guava clean

I think this is actually a smart play hedge with a bus vote leave the other wolfs off wagon and give May a 50/50 rand that doesn’t out the team

Zorvo still tracks
Dota can track so can Jaiden Min… so that’s fun
Gar wolf

@Zenon

@O.kazo

I wanna shoot min.

Opinions on this?

I’m not opposed

@Zenon

@guavagudetama

maybe I’ll just shoot Min instead

I’m not opposed

@Zenon

Sick

@Zenon

VCA godly

@Zenon

Technically i think min being wolf clears Dota and Jaiden shrugs

@Zenon

@dota

min tho big misread yeah my bad, i need to trust my gut more and trust my logic less

I mean until today i agreed i thought about shooting min over night… and the VCA solidified it for me.

@Zenon

@WindwardAway

Ok so why do you think Dota is clear? Spew? Unpartnered treatment? I’ve seen him wolf and aggressively townside once but it’s a small sample size

I did some VCA and thought there was 1 in Jaiden Min Dota

I thought it was most likely Dota originally but people wanted to shoot min which i encouraged cause that was option 2 for me with Jaiden being last.

With min dead wolf and Jaiden dead town I’m pretty confident in that. But Dota also played some stuff today that just feels tonally towny and oure. There’s a self doubt that feels genuine.

@Zenon

@WindwardAway

Idk, I don’t do tonereads because I can’t read tone to save my life lmao, and if that’s the biggest thing in dota’s favor I’m likely not even gonna see it.

I exclusively do town reads and form my poe off that but I am very fucking good at it and my iso this game is proof.

@Zenon

@dota

then who is it with garfooled

If you don’t think it’s Zorvo which you don’t than I’m not sure. That’s just kinda where I’m at. You were my next tinfoil but i just simply don’t believe that.

I TR Eliza early and never reevaled so maybe i should. All the low posters look good to me off the back of just like standard VCAs and shit but i don’t really have GOOD reasons for it.

This is already too many quotes but also all of the stuff about dota

@Zenon

@Leafia

Brad was way too certain lol.was town. Both you and him belong on the shotlist. With May too maybe.

This is at best 1 for 3

Also also a whole bunch of posts like these being mostly correct

[Jane]

@Jane

their attitude in general, it doesn’t make sense for them to act this way as a wolf.

Like, in a scenario where Zenon is wolf trying to go deep by bussing some teammates, they need to survive but they’re antagonizing several people, especially Zorvo and particle. That just makes people more likely to want to kill them.

@Zenon

@Arctic

but like

they are based on nothing

They aren’t based on nothing. I read the game and made simple conclusions based off it like you are.

Mine are just right.

@Zenon

@guavagudetama

Zenon is suspicious for possible tmi reasons but ParticleMan is straight up trolling which doesn’t help either alignment and I wanna vote him.

There’s been zero flips how you gonna accuse me off buzzwprd mick buzzington this early lol

@Zenon

Hey. You wanna prove how bad PMs reads are. Hammer me right now lol.

@Zenon

VOTE: zenon

I’ll help

@Zenon

@Zorvo

When it flips Green remember to shoot the hell out of Raji Day 3.

TMI

@Zorvo

Ew that I’m super town siding yeah.

Perspective slip

Wolf. GGs.

@Zenon

I dare someone to ISO me and tell me

A. That I’m a bad player

B. That I’m wolf

Show your work too. Have fun.

@Zenon

@Jar

maybe mafias are zenon and may

Kill me. It’ll be funny. I wonder if Zorvo will try to enact my dying demands.

@Zenon

@eevee

Let’s complicate your situation.

I’m in place where I would defend Zorvo from Zenon.

Zorvo is impulsive, chaotic and… very often stuck in own worldview. And bad at argumentation. I’m not convinced theirs bullshit is yet out of theirs townrange.
It bit of seems Zenon’s expectations vs Zorvo’s behavior issue, but Zorvo’s personality is very confident, very stuck to own opinion, unlikely to listen to others… and often starts arguing.

Meanwhile arguing is a bad way to change someone’s opinion, which in end means he is stuck in his worldviews for long.

I’m not 100% sure if it’s the case, but I don’t agree with Zenon’s arguments that much.

Alright

UNVOTE

I will not be blamed for future town deaths

@Zenon

@Zorvo

50/50, I’m saying your town for now but not leaving out the possibility for you to be a wolf.

Also you did defend Min but I also had Min as town until I started questioning it yesterday.

What a joke lol

@Zenon

My read accuracy continues to be fire. Wouldn’t it be cool if we didn’t keep killing the towns i find as town eventually lol

@Zenon

You gonna keep bringing up the one wolf you got shot like that somehow absolved you of all the town you have killed?

[Jane]

@Jane

their self-doubt and emotions feel genuine and their attitude in general

@Zenon

@dota

confidence is good but i dont recommend getting cocky since you will start tunneling and get ultrabiased

i have been guilty of that myself in the past

Oh I’m almost certainly wrong but I’m gonna keep doing this lol

If i don’t the truth comes out and that’s bad.

@Zenon

The truth is my disillusionment with mafia and my real feelings about a lot oh stuff… it’s a mess

It’s mostly about me.

Anyways…

@Zenon

@Arctic

i feel like we’re probably not going to come to an understanding on this, but this is why i think your logic is bad and you are probably wrong. how much do i really care about this? idk. because i don’t think trying to read you from logic is going to end very well for me, ngl.

My logic is like actually pretty good.

I’m not bad at mafia because my logic is bad I’m actually pretty good at figuring out the logic behind Action

I’m bad at mafia because self doubt and conf bias issues

@Zenon

@dota

its not that hard to ignore him imo

hes town anyway no point in arguing with him its not like either of you will convince the other one theyre wrong

you cant control what he posts but you can control what you reply to

It’s actually extremely hard to ignore someone spamming a thread i have to read too play towards my wincon unless i block them which is also in my opinion deliberately throwing the game.

I am not capable of ignoring what I’m forced to read but I’m also not capable of just leaving the thread cause I’m dumb

Anyways it’s fine I’m gonna try to ignore for now.

But it’s extremely demotivatong for a game i was super excited to play that is become a scream fest of the same 3 lines 150 times and all the conversation is now directly revolving around a slot that i think has made the game state incredibly toxic because they are just saying “lolololol outed scum” over and over.

@Zenon

Okay fun fact

I’ve been wrong on d1 executions in every game since champs including champs. And it makes me very anxious so a lot of the bravado is fake lol.

Not all of it. And i do believe my reads. But I’m very disillusioned with my skill and my reads and myself.

But if i don’t put up the front of that I’m still confident in my early reads i will freeze

And if i freeze i will struggle to find a town core and i will get lost and i will just be lost all game and be taken by the waves

So… anyways

Yeah.

Uh.

I was gonna put a list here but I’m too lazy to go get the pl

@Zenon

@guavagudetama

I still don’t like your omgus vote on Zenon even though Jaiden voted you first, but I also think Zenon is suspicious due to what was either tmi or just actual nonsense, and I’m leaning on the former

I have seen some of your posts as townie though so I’m kinda conflicted on you, it’s not a very strong read but these are the only real suspicions I have atm

Min is also up there for me but I want to save him for day 2 in case he decides to improve. If push comes to shove I’m willing to kill him, but I’d rather kill like ParticleMan or Zenon
tbh my vote probably won’t move off of ParticleMan today. but it might move to Zenon if the vote is between like someone I think is obvtown and her

Explain how anything I’ve said is tmi and not just confidence?

I have reads I’m not going to pretend like my town reads are going to flip scum i don’t think that.

Explain to me why my thoughts are nonsense? Just because i read into things you aren’t doesn’t mean my reads aren’t valid. I’m good at what i do… or i used to be

@Zenon

Sorry Jaiden I’m violating my no gifs order for one post because i fucking needed this so bad i needed to get something right…

@Zenon

Okay i like physically can’t get through this back read…sigh

@Zenon

@Wazza

I like your reasoning tbh, I was planning on shooting May but I swayed from it regardless of this message but this is actually well thought out reasoning

It’s rare but sometimes i have a thought that isn’t trash

Yay me

@Zenon

@guavagudetama

calling the person pushing you annoying is not the move here

people need to like you to trust you
please don’t throw away the game because you’re angry, I feel that you’re town, but this doesn’t help your case even if you’re right about Zenon
take a breather, we’re gonna work this out in the end

also good night Zorvo

I’ll apologize to Zorvo for calling them toxic that was a birch move and unfair of me

I’m not apologizing for getting upset at being told to go sit in a corner and being upset at being called annoying because i disagree with something and have a different read

@Zenon

@Magnus

This is obviously your preferred execution. I’m also guessing you don’t like reading interactions, Zenon?

It’s not anymore i just haven’t moved. Zorvo is probably town I’m letting my emotions get in the way of logic… again.

@Zenon

@Zenon

lol (3): Arogame123, Rajidae, Achromatic

Holy fuck I am a genius

@Zenon

@Zenon

lol (3): Arogame123, Rajidae, Achromatic

One of these is scum

It’s probably Aro

God I’m so good

@Zenon

Remember i have tmi according to like 4 people

@dota

/shoot Magnus @Italy

@Italy

Hit.

@Zenon

Fuckkkkk

@Zenon

ITAs are rigged

@Zenon

I fucking hate this game how the fuck…

@Zenon

I have carried but nobody will listen to me.

@Zenon

I’m tired of fighting for a town that doesn’t give a fuck

@Zenon

@Jaiden

Me

Yeah you to. You and the Eliza slot are town…i want town to careeee

@Zenon

@Zorvo

Brad cared enough to take out May.

Bread was the only player I trusted after Iaafr died. It’s been a slow burn of apathy from this town.

@Zenon

Because i could be wrong and NOBODY FUCKING LISTENS TO ME THIS GAME ANYWAYS

@Zenon

@BradLand

This is shit because Magnus was towny as fuck and literally that was the ONLY shot that hit somehow. I learned nothing off of that.

Agreed. I mean…wtf.

Like all of this… I don’t think I can see it coming from a wolf.

[Jane]

At this point my vote is already pretty much locked in on Jar. I’m pretty much never voting O.kazo and Zenon which feels pretty weird because it’s LyLo. I don’t think Jar can convince me that Zenon is a wolf or that they’re town, mostly because they’re not even trying to do that.

The only one I think can still change my mind is guava, by convincing me they are Town, but they’ve been gone for a while.

[guavagudetama]

@O.kazo

Would Zenon kill Zorvo, though?

Who wouldn’t?

@Zenon

I would totally just keep annoying him as wolf lol

@Jane

What do you think of Jar’s recent posts

I think they’ve been relatively townie but not townie enough for me to vote Zenon over it

@Jane

who do you think the wolves are

Lowkey I think it’s still possible that it’s Jar/Zenon who are bussing each other so we won’t kill them in f3 because Jar had a lot of heat on him and Zorvo was like begging people to vote Zenon (and me)

@O.kazo

Like I would shoot at three bandits as a bandit.

Okay, the first one was on suggestion, the other ones were based on my intuitions.

Well yeah
No one suspects the guy who kills three wolves
(You’re like probably fine though)

@Jar

what are your thoughts on jane pushing me? do you think jane is mafia with zenon?

Hhhhhh I mean it’s possible

@Jane

The only one I think can still change my mind is guava, by convincing me they are Town, but they’ve been gone for a while.

I was asleep

[Jane]

@guavagudetama

I was asleep

Yeah I figured.

[Jane]

I want to talk to you but I’ve put a lot of effort into this LyLo already and want to go watch stage 3 of Critérium du Dauphiné first are you going to be around for a while?

[guavagudetama]

Yeah I’ll be around

[guavagudetama]

Also I just realised if I think the scum is Jar/Zenon is does not matter where I vote so I’m just gonna vote

VOTE: Jar

[O.kazo]

@guavagudetama

Who wouldn’t?

Me, probably.

Guy was less townread, than Jane.

[O.kazo]

Last two kill were like… heh…
Why?

Which I doubt someone like Zenon would make.

I guess min/may were the main power of the bandits.

[O.kazo]

@Jane if you are wolf (and not partnered with Jar) you should vote now.

Otherwise I still think we should this talk out, while we have time.

[guavagudetama]

@O.kazo

Last two kill were like… heh…
Why?

Actually thinking about that kill it was probably to frame me and Zenon since that’s where Zorvo wanted us to vote
Which would lead me to believe it’s Jar/Jane?