Suppertime for me now. 
Even while I may as well not have been here D2, I had been paying attention to the thread. The problem’s that nobody was talking to or about me for most of day, and anything worth commenting on had already been said by someone else, so I simply lacked the motivation to speak. So that’s my bad.
With that being said, I’d agree on resolving the Cream/Magnus situation today. Déjà vu. I already know I’m Town, so I’d naturally be interested in learning whether or not Cream is actually evil, and I’d assume they’d feel vice versa. I haven’t talked myself into a Cream execution though, and as a policy I try not to vote anyone with the intention to execute unless I believe they’re evil. Last time this situation happened both parties were good, and the people directing the wagons were evil, and while I don’t believe that’s happening here, there’s definitely an evil unaccounted for.
@Cream what’s your role called?
Town X-Shot Demon
There’s another component to my role besides preventing redirect/roleblock that I didn’t initially want to out, but now I’m probably at a point where I have to?
I’m also immune to death every X night
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I’ve seen games lost on erroneous mech clears. I think sites like FOL are especially prone to it, since mech discussion is more heavy, and I’ve personally played a FOL game where mafia!vig was mech cleared based on pro-town vig shot. I’ve seen mafia!DV be the tiebreaker on a T/W double wagon and vote the wolf.
This game is bastard, as the OP states. I expect unexpected mechanical elements, and take caution to mech clearing someone so easily. Just from a game design standpoint, mafia games aren’t supposed to be broken through a mass roleclaim mech solve. I don’t believe the person who has designed this game, and the people who have reviewed it, are unaware of this fact.
When looking at a pro-town mechanical action, I think one has to also look at the surrounding circumstance behind that to better gauge whether it truly should be as clearing as one initially is led to believe.
This will be likely lost on many of you, but I recommend you come back to think on this aspect when the game gets “hard” and really scrutinize people.
When reading an ISO, it is easy to miss circumstantial information. That aspect is also important in the solve.
There have been a few surface-level reads that look at aspects in a vacuum, and I believe it unwise to draw strong conclusions.
For example, beancat voting Zorvo first thing. Is that clearing Zorvo?
Not necessarily.
Vote Count was:
Marluna - 4
When the top wagon has quite a hefty amount of votes, going off on a single-vote vanity wagon is not significant. It would be the perfect opportunity to do some distancing with your scumbuddy without actually manifesting real consequences. Especially when the accompanying vote reasoning beancat gave had a tinge of leniency that might have allowed him to easily back out of the vote.
Not a Zorvo vote because what Zorvo was truly deep in scum territory. But because he just wanted a further explanation from Zorvo, and for Zorvo to “make it make sense” and give a clear explanation.
I don’t read much into the Zorvo vote.
One other comment that comes up is “beancat was bussed or hellbussed” or whatever you call it.
Sure, yes. Beancat (in a vacuum) would be a prime bussing candidate. LHF. POE. Destined to prob die. Might as well get towncred off of it.
But when you think about beancat’s role, he was the freakin BPV vig. I think that’s a great role that mafia wouldn’t want dying. They’d lose firepower if he did go down.
I don’t think there was hell bussing.
If mafia lose BPV vig, they are severely disadvantaged. They won’t have a way to easily elim people with a BPV. People with a BPV will be twice as hard to kill.
I would believe in mafia bussing when they saw beancat was a lost cause, but most certainly not hellbussing.
Do I believe the wagon is pure? Well… wagons are rarely pure.
Order of voting goes:
- Cream.
Marluna - 3
Gyrlander - 1
Zorvo - 1
Beancat - 1
-
Gyrlander
Marluna - 3
Gyrlander - 2
Beancat - 2 -
Obscurity
Marluna - 3
Beancat - 3
Gyrlander - 1
- Leafia
Beancat - 4
Marluna - 2
Gyrlander - 1
- Lissi
Beancat - 5
Marluna - 1
Gyrlander - 1
- Marluna
Beancat - 6
Gyrlander - 2
Marluna - 1
- lol
Beancat - 7
Gyrlander - 2
Marluna - 1
Leafia - 1
===
Cream > Gyrlander > Obscurity > Leafia > Lissi > Marluna > lol
People off wagon were: Glass, Lemonfairy, Zorvo, Magnus, (Gorta, Beancat)
One other aspect not captured in the above section is that Glass moved votes from Marluna to Gyrlander, thus making beancat the top wagon. (cross ref 1522, 1524)
Just from how the beancat wagon developed, I’d say Glass and obscurity look good. Possibly Gyrlander too.
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Just expanding on this… but I don’t know if you guys realize that to win, all mafia needs to do is have 1 member alive at the end.
That means all it takes it ONE erroneous mech clear for town to lose the game.
Just advice to double and triple check your mech solves.
Now, I think Lemon asked me for a read list
Something feels wrong here.
Why would mafia attack someone who everyone knew had a BPV?
Few possibilities that I can think of:
- lol if mafia and lying about being attacked
- lol is town. Mafia is not reading thread and completely missed the fact that lol had a BPV
- lol is town. Mafia believe lol to be a threat worthy of attacking multiple times in order to kill
In this case it’s optimal to control Obscurity into Lol as well. Sure, you’re saying you were strongwilling Obscurity last night, but Mafia had no way of knowing that if you’re Town. (It’s a strongwill, right? That’s correct terminology?)
Actually, maybe Mafia was afraid there was a Watcher or something. That would explain the Lemon attack N1.
I was actually in that game. I remember it too.
Considering lol’s claim, I’d bet money on it being this. Otherwise, why redirect him as well? And believe me, had lol known that my votes were stolen, I highly doubt he would’ve acted that scummy.
You know what I think.
I think if Cream is a wolf Lemon’s PoE is 100% accurate.
I think a wolf trying to discredit and try and get others to sus a dude who doesn’t have a counting vote probably indicates wolves are in panic mode and needed to try and get any town they can into the PoE.
Yes I was targeting obscurity last night. I don’t know what’s mafia roles there are, but I don’t think mafia would be able to know.
I am rather surprised they let obscurity’s shot go through, unless they knew he was very far off from who the scum team actually was, and weren’t worried about it.
Oh boy I’m basically a kill stopper for wolves so if your wolf you actually have to ML me to get rid of me here or allow me to absorb some kills.
I am okay with dying btw, though it would be more advantageous if you let me live another night to target obscurity again so that mafia won’t redirect.
Which is really nice cause he could have killed me.
I am even stronger now.
This was the host’s ping at the end of D2.
We didn’t have enough public votes to trigger a vote count for soft plurality.
I think Leafia is telling the truth.
If the vote count was triggered, I think Gorta would have died.