An Attempt at a Sorc 17er - Game Thread

[tutuu]

know what?

a few people expressed so, mac did, i semi-jokingly did, i forgot who else

or if you’re asking what’s his scumrange - i dont know firsthand. my other points carry more weight to me, this point is more so a conclusion than a point

[Zorvo]

@Arctic

i feel like all of these can be explained by stuff i’ve already told you whether it be me taking a backseat, or me genuinely scumreading magnus (so i’m not sure why that’s even a point in the first place?)

the last point is like… okay yeah no i was going to sugarcoat it but this read just never works on me
like the last time someone tried to use this read on me was when Marl deathtunneled me at the start of valorant FM because i was deflated due to the way the game was going (and i even wanted to roll wolf that game)

my enjoyment of the game in recent times has become much more linked to how the game is going for my alignment rather than my alignment itself

@Arctic

@mollylikesorigami

may this game seems like a rough, sloppy caricature of may last game to me. otherwise idk, and arctic’s points don’t resonate with me at all tbh. sorry man but like, “you could’ve done something to save eliza” is real rich coming from you lmfao.

that was like a tangential part of my case against her
what are your thoughts on the main body (where the vote is)

@Marluxion

but also i do want you to explain why you think arete was town at this point

you won’t be happy to hear this but it was partly because i agreed with their eliza take at the time and partly because i think the way they steered away from zorvo to eliza felt villagery in the moment because if they were trying to make a push on zorvo in bad faith then turning around and shading people who are agreeing with you seems counterproductive to this, and it implies that arete was genuinely trying to solve the game rather than push in one direction

do you have reasons to suspect arete other than the eliza take

@Arctic

@Jarek

I can get behind that considering their last post was 2 days ago. I don’t think a wolf AFK’s like that though.

@Jarek

I’ve seen evils in other, shorter social deduction games go mute because they think it helps them fly under the radar to contribute absolutely nothing whilst the good team goes at eachother.

I didn’t think someone would try and pull that off here because a 48 hour gap of not posting is significantly more noticable than a 1-2 minute gap of not contributing anything to any particular day phase. I suppose with the chaos of these T/T wagons they might have felt safe doing so, but it’s hard to believe a wolf willingly does nothing instead of adding fuel to the fire.

this read is extremely dubious

have you considered that them disappearing may be due to unrelated reasons to the game rather than #strats and this does not affect their chances of being a wolf

do you have a read on their actual content

@Zorvo

Also now I think I want to put Arctic back into straight lean cause like I’m thinking about it and shouldn’t Arctic logically have disagreed with me and be voting otterpop with you but is instead voting May?

i don’t know what you’re saying i should be disagreeing with you about, but i have disagreed with you several times that otter was a villager wagon (though i am currently unsure at the moment) and the reason i am not voting them is because i think may is more wolfy and otter/may are probably not w/w

@Marluxion

@Arctic i am awake and want to talk about arete where are you
isn’t it like 4 pm in tealand

i already said that i don’t think your take on their eliza take is good because i townread it, and your point on aro’s question just feels like regardless of your alignment you are trying to spin that as wolf indicative for arete when it is a massive reach
ultimately i don’t know whether this is wolf AI or you are just confbiased because it’s just unnecessary but i do know it is

do you have thoughts on literally anyone else

@Arctic

@Arete

anyways people are going to hate this take but Vulgard townreading me is legitimately close to lock clearing for me (conditional on him being a villager which I am not yet certain of), like I’m not completely incapable of fooling him but it requires that I put basically all of my effort into optimizing for Trying To Fool Vulgard which is not a thing I would do if he weren’t even in the game

i was about to accuse this of being TMI and then i actually read the post
i don’t see why in order to fool vulgard you would have to specifically play to fool him, instead of just… having a good wolf game, or pulling it off unintentionally. regardless, i don’t care much about his read on you right now because i don’t have much of a read on him either

@Arete

even though his initial reasoning for suspecting Arctic was largely predicated on a false assumption

what reasoning are you referring to here?

@Arete

vague bitterness at myself for, yesterday, noticing midday that I was experiencing the specific sort of nervousness about the prospect of someone being a wolf that often means they are and I just don’t want them to be, and then ignoring that fact. which is stupid since he hasn’t even flipped yet, he could still be a villager!

@Arete

I don’t really have strong wolfreads, not even Arctic even if I do think it’s ~likely, which is – not great. Like it means I’m definitely Wrong On Someone but when I contemplate ‘actually fulfilling my basic responsibility to figure out who ’ it makes me want to close the thread and curl up with a blanket in my beanbag chair and play some online Pokemon. This is not really a great position to be in.

god damn. i’m not sure wolf arete can fake these posts, especially the first with TMI that i’m town (i am assuming it is referring to me given their earlier posts)

@Arctic

i am thinking about arete, seth. for instance i’ve been considering that the reason neither of me/you were nightkilled is because aro/neon were correct on other reads (such as May or otter) while you’ve been correct on Arete and i’ve been defending them from you, effectively nullifying your push there

the alternative i’m thinking about is that how if i follow my social read on Arete and the gamestate, May is probably just a wolf

consider how it makes sense for May to be masterminding the world where the three of me, you and Arete are villagers, and none of us are being nightkilled. i called it out on day 1, but i dropped it after i misread magnus for similar reasoning, but it holds that they’ve been egging on your (at least one incorrect) pushes since day 1

i think they’ve had two wolfy eods. i think they’ve been taking a backseat for most of the game while villagers kill each other and she’s never practically acted on any of her strong convictions in an impactful way. it doesn’t look like she’s trying to solve the game - it looks like she is playing in a calculated way to capitalize on whatever opportunity comes up, whether it be me at eod or Arete now and i don’t think her justification of voting me because my flip would be informative holds when i’ve been a hardly-discussed yet townread slot for the entire game. like, that’s the opposite of the sort of slot you want to kill for information, and they didn’t respond to my question about it either so i have to just take it at face value.

I think it’s extremely unlikely that otter and may contains zero wolves, and I would rather kill one of them today than Arete

@Arctic

if i die, i think arete and seth are v/v

i still think otter is likely mafia, and i think eliza is more likely to be town as well

i think phraze may be being miscleared

@tutuu

[Zorvo]

What do you think of those posts?

[Zorvo]

Remember both Arete and Vulgard couldn’t figure out Arctic was a wolf and Arctic also led the Day 1 execution on Magnus

[tutuu]

they are long, his posts here are also long

im still keeping my townread on him, i might not be explaining it the best but im quite confident

i do feel like you are townier for digging these quotes up. you can have a town lean

[Zorvo]

@Arctic

i think phraze may be being miscleared

Phraze was also their teammate they were coaching

[Zorvo]

@tutuu

im still keeping my townread on him, i might not be explaining it the best but im quite confident

I’m just letting you know.
There isn’t much of a difference between Arctic’s wolf and town game.

[Zorvo]

Now I haven’t seen Arete wolf and if I had it was a long ass time ago

[Zorvo]

But I’d expect roughly the same if not better.

[Arctic]

what a lovely discussion to come back to

mac’s read on me is funny. i saw it when i was skimming. it’s one of those classic “haven’t seen them wolf in years and are vastly underestimating their scumrange” reads, but luckily for him it doesn’t matter because he’s town.

zorvo, there is a difference between my town game and scum game, but the difference is intentional, you’re right that i can probably fake most of what i’ve done in this game, but you are getting caught up on the same thing you always do every time we have this dance - you’re trying to say why i could be a wolf rather than why i am a wolf

[Zorvo]

Arctic also directly just pushed on Villagers

[Arctic]

@Arctic

because he’s town.

meant to say i’m town

[Zorvo]

Shit he pushes Villagers as town too

[Zorvo]

@Arctic

you’re trying to say why i could be a wolf rather than why i am a wolf

Why was Magnus wolf in that other game?

The only logical thing to find from them was their partners.

How do I find something of you if your a wolf?

[Zorvo]

@Arctic

@Arctic

because he’s town.

meant to say i’m town

Nah man, this is TMI.
If your wolf, I lock Mac as Town.

[Zorvo]

If Mac is CamGrrl I already town read them, but this becomes a lock on your wolf flip.

[Zorvo]

Nah but actually Arctic if your a wolf how do you find yourself?

[tutuu]

okay zorvo can be towncore for this post

[Arctic]

I’m not sure why you think I would just tell you how to find me if I was a wolf, but luckily for you since I am not I can in fact tell you

If my confidence on my reads does not scale with how correct I am, I’m likely to be mafia

If you backread later on in the game and see I’ve been townreading wolves for bullshit reasons, I’m likely to be mafia

If I haven’t been involved in any wolf deaths, I’m likely to be mafia.

You should not judge me on the accuracy of my reads as a whole, but you should judge the accuracy of reads I ask to be sheeped on, because I only do this when I am mafia and want to push an agenda (so the read would be incorrect) or when I am town and strongly believe in my read (when I am usually correct)

[Zorvo]

@Arctic

Like let’s say you have a clone.
We will call them Arcy.
You join an FM game with them.
Arcy is Mafia, You are Town.
Let’s say it’s a Vanilla Game.

How would you go about trying to figure out Arcy’s alignment?