April Showers The Third - MAFIA + NEUTRAL VICTORY

[pandora]

my nonhydra related thought is: do we think that smiley is actually a player ability or just a host thing?

[Chomps]

i don’t think it is a mafia ability unless it gets changed, i can see it being a mafia ability if mafia can do stuff that slowly makes it more mafia sided and resist lynch somehow

town ability most probably! host thing detached from anything might indicate something bad like 4 mafia?

[pandora]

this was a question posed earlier, I’m honestly not sure

[pandora]

If it’s a player ability it is bizarre if it’s not it is more bizarre. like jojo. an enemy stand

[pandora]

ally stand…

[pandora]

i feel like my ability is weird enough that this sort of thing is not out of the question

[Jarek]

Player ability, though maybe not in the sense that it’s a direct result of someones ability that it would be in their rolecard maybe, like, a few people have an ability that affects it in some way

[Jarek]

I have no idea if that makes sense

[pandora]

no i understand

[Kiiruma]

Ah my apologies. That unfortunately there is a thing called life that sometimes people must attend to. I’m not saying that players should do nothing until I speak and offer guidance, I’m just stating that we shouldn’t be talking about something which seems relatively irrelevant to be discussing and isn’t contributing much of worth to the furthering of our position in this game.

I’ll state that I don’t actually think you’re a wolf for pushing this angle and I’d think the more opportunistic one is Starboy who took the chance to be able to join your relatively innocuous and not exactly well backed wagon.

[Kiiruma]

With that said I’m going to

VOTE: Starboy

I was planning on doing my usual giant reads list, it’s why I haven’t necessarily done any huge individual ones. I think Jarek is like lean town to me atm. It’s possible that Jarek just attempted to shunt me out thinking I’m going to go down without a fight due to my lack of activity but overall it just comes across as a mild attempt to push me to do more which is good. Instead of an attempt to put pressure on me which can lead to the exact opposite and just make me go on the defensive constantly.

[Leafia]

@Starboy

I find it interesting, and a little wolfy, that Marluna would first point out that the neutral has town sided abilities as a reason not to kill it, rather than the more obvious (atleast to myself) reason that its simply a wasted kill. Even if it had no abilities I would not want to kill it instead of a potiental suspect.

How is that wolfy? I think it’s mildly villagery myself.

@Starboy

Is there any reason for this beyond “Vibes”? I personally agreed with their view of threadstate

Gut mostly.

@Marluna

Well.
It would be literally a wasted kill for mafia as well. It (Killing a neutral benign on itself) doesn’t help them getting closer to the victory. (Unless it becomes a kingmaker for the opposition, but this neutral specifically can’t even do that.) So I didn’t feel a reason to pinpoint someone as scummy simply for that reason.

Not entirely true. Wolves don’t really want Smiley alive long I feel.

@Marluna

Also was it really that obvious for everyone beside myself that Jarek was joking?

Still not entirely sure it was a joke.

Pandora is making me a bit uneasy with how their reads seem everywhere at the moment as well as their vote. Very slim wolflean on them.

Giving Starboy a slim townlean too.

@soweli

also can we kill pandora for an annoying wall

Sure. VOTE: Pandora

@Kiiruma

I’ll make one statement though, I’m doubting Smiley is the only neut. As it’d feel weird if Smiley was and it’s like ‘Yeah we’ll have 1 neut and it’ll be super public and helpful’.

Mindmeld with me.

@Kiiruma

I’d recommend against stating too much there because we don’t know how loose anticlaim will be.

I hate to have to step aside from mechanics, but the more that we talk about our own mechanics, the more of a risk we are at to trigger a form of anticlaim.

Kiiruma of all people saying something like this is raising a red flag to me with how much he loves mechanics, but maybe I’m reading too much into his meta. Very very slim scumlean.

@Canping

Ok so if we consider marluna a town member, and didn’t actually realize jarek wasn’t serious. Did leafia not realize it was a meme joke as well? Could those be from a wolf whos standing with a town who had bad impression earlier, you could say they wouldn’t standing with jarek? I think that would be more obvious. I know we need to move on from this " x voted smiley" thing, but i think it might give us something.

Not sure exactly what Canping is saying here but it sounds villagery enough to me. Slim townlean.

@Jarek

Are you saying that one of marluna or leafia, or perhaps both, have the potential of being a wolf that saw an easy way to make a push (and enter the thread) to generate early pressure?

It’s possible but it’d be that kind of hunch I’d not kill someone over but I’d be suspicious of it and have it there like some sort of tally. Strike 1 for being suspicious. Save it for later, for the scum case. Or maybe as a reason to cop check or vig them.

Hmmm, Jarek can go back to null I guess.

@Jarek

Well I’m going to think of one, maybe we can start deathtunelling someone for an hour or 4 and see what people do about it

Nudges Jarek over to leantown

@soweli

btw searching for anybody with townreads on:

Leafia
Starboy
Frostwolf
pandora
Chomps

I have one on Leafia. I’m a god at reading her. She’s town. I also have a townlean on Chomps as well. I’m pretty good at reading him.

@Marluna

(I don’t even attempt to try read Leafia anymore… she is sus even if she is towncore, she is just that good as scum.)

Here’s someone who remembers Ice Cream Mafia. Hee hee.

@Rhea

The way Jarek has been speaking has seemed particularly unforced to me. I liked how it threw in a clarification about being joking without much awkwardness. He has also been contributing decently even after being townread rather than seeming cautious for fear of it disappearing.

Not sure I’d agree but I can understand your thought process there at least.

I like the threadstate so far. Lots of reading going on, but we should start thinking about consolidating our votes on just two wagons.

[Jarek]

@Leafia

I like the threadstate so far. Lots of reading going on, but we should start thinking about consolidating our votes on just two wagons.

Kiiruma (2): Jarek, Starboy
Heiter (2): Rhea, Chomps
Canping (1): soweli
Chomps (1): ElizaThePsycho
Marluna (1): pandora
Starboy (1): Kiiruma
pandora (1): Leafia

hmm

[Leafia]

The number of wagons however is jarringly high though I feel.

[Jarek]

It definitely is, I don’t quite know what that means

[Kiiruma]

I’ll add to my previous thing somewhat which is that I saw somebody (IIRC Soweli) comment about Frost’s title, that being of ‘2024 best town player’ and then say that Frost hadn’t done anything towny / anything interesting? Can’t remember exactly what but it was something there.

And it’s a possibility in my mind that my title, that being of ‘2024 Best Mechanical / Strategic Player’ could be getting people to treat my slot differently than perhaps should be done. Making it so wolves actually find me more of a threat than I think I actually am? Especially when I’ve made an argument to somewhat side step mechanics unless necessary in order to consider any sort of anticlaim.

---

Will I end up claiming? Realistically yes at some point, I almost always do.

I’m just trying to urge people not to go so hard when it comes to potentially triggering anticlaim considering the fact we already have a self-revealing character from the start which can start to trigger that sort of thing (SMILEY)

[Leafia]

Seems like Kiiruma is a bit nervous and went into unnecessary explaining to me. I’m up for pressure on Heiter though like Rhea said. VOTE: Heiter

Please generate content Heiter!

[Kiiruma]

@Leafia

Kiiruma of all people saying something like this is raising a red flag to me with how much he loves mechanics, but maybe I’m reading too much into his meta. Very very slim scumlean.

I love mechanics, that literally never will change.

We just already have a self-revealing character which might already cause some sort of problem via anticlaim. And I wish for us to avoid triggering it too much too fast or whatnot.

I’m saying that we shouldn’t make small comments about our role which can risk anticlaim. Comments such as the one by Soweli “My role strongly implies the existence of other neutrals” can risk something, something unnecessary for its worth which isn’t exactly that high imo.

[Leafia]

I think that might be being a bit too paranoid myself.

[Rhea]

I reread Frostwolf103, but I did not find anything I felt stood out to me as alignment-indicative.

I’d like to challenge everybody to put out a read list, even if you feel you do not have the ability to give an opinion on every player and even if it does not fully reflect the complexities of your thoughts right now. Feel free to skip the players you do not feel you can place.

Posting a read list allows other people to see more broadly your worldview and opinions, making it easier to see how your thoughts fit together, and it prevents wolves from being able to change their supposed “reads” on a dime to easily push agenda. Providing information about your thoughts is essentially always a good thing.