Bland & Flavorless Mountainous 15er - Mafia Winnered

[Lemonfairy]

yeah, no
I was just asking b/c I’ve never had this problem

[Jarek]

I did say it was strange.

[May]

Physically fighting people who are seen as better than you at mafia is awesome. Do it everyday

(Still very busy and sick can’t really do proper Abstract Analysis but I can ask and answer questions feel free to talk to me)

[Arete]

@Jarek

I have this really strange feeling that I’m not allowed to scum-read certain people purely because they’re better players than me

that’s silly

here you go

[Jarek]

my god I love my pfp.

[Arete]

fwiw I looked through the Arctic posts you quoted and I’m sort of unsure to what extent you’re saying that you think May and Arctic are w/w vs. just that you think Arctic is a wolf

[Jarek]

@Arete

fwiw I looked through the Arctic posts you quoted and I’m sort of unsure to what extent you’re saying that you think May and Arctic are w/w vs. just that you think Arctic is a wolf

Yeah… I thought it was W/W but yeah it’s just artic being a little fishy in my opinion. The more I look at it the more I can see it being May T Artic W.

Also yeah it’s really silly but it’s a confidence thing I’m pretty sure. Longer play time = they know better than me = scumreading them is me being a dumbass

[May]

Jarek what you’ve gotta do every game is find whoever you think sounds most confident and experienced and immediately start deathtunneling them. This taught me everything I know

[Zorvo]

We interrupt Zorvo’s post count to bring you a message from our sponsors.

https://youtube.com/shorts/0PLynroGlRs?feature=share

[Zorvo]

NGL though if that doesn’t make you adopt a cat idk what will.

[Prisma101]

Why was aro killed?

[Lemonfairy]

@Arete

aret aret

VOTE: Arogame123

votes town

@Arete

we can change that
VOTE: ElizaThePsycho

votes another town

@Arete

anyways no one talking is boring so I am forcibly turning RVS into RQS

1. What is the last game of forum mafia you played, and what did you learn from it?
2. What alignment were you hoping to rand this game, and why?
3. Which player in this playerlist are you best at reading?

ok RQS
same as Jarek’s point with May though - feels like it doesn’t help with solving in any way and it looks like busy work
I enjoyed answering the questions though

@Arete

this is an incredibly stupid read but I kind of think this might be townie

this is actually an ok read for SOD1

@Arete

there’s a difference between ‘wanting to change something about how you play’ and ‘saying in the game thread that you want to say that thing’

I believe that mafia!Arctic would decide not to doomerpost in mafia chat but I think it’s less?likely for him to reference that in public

seems fine

@Arete

in terms of accuracy I think it is ~rand, in my experience with Eliza she does not post very many words (in volume or post length) regardless of alignment

this is fair and close to my thoughts on Eliza

@Arete

I believe May believes that in the general case ‘not writing very many words in posts that could have more explanation’ is wolfy but that basically just means ‘town or making a read that she thinks is a read she would make as town’ which is not very helpful

this sentence hurts my brain

@Arete

if she has experience with town!Eliza it’s more likely to be wolfy, ‘Eliza doesn’t post a lot of words’ is pretty easy to notice

…which upon looking it looks like she does, Morbtainado and Starcraft at least (maybe more but I’m lazy) so she should know better on that

@May why did you think Eliza being concise was wolfy for her?

Arete implies May is wolfy here but doesn’t say May is wolfy outright or vote May

semi-serious take: the frequency at which Arete is posting is too high in this one post and could indicate nervousness/unease that Arete is trying to mask
could be w/w

@Arete

this is one of those reads that’s definitely going to get me yelled at on the grounds that it Sounds Fake but I sincerely and unironically believe this is >rand to be w/w

(=rand is like 3%, I mean ‘like 10%’ not ‘like 70%,’ but it’s a real read)

ok read
I kind of agreed with it too at the time but now we know they’re not w/w

@Arete

oh ok thanks for clearing that up

VOTE: Zorvo

the response is a joke but the previous reason Arete as confirmed is real
the vote is also real

some disconnect here since Arete kind of implied a scumread on May but didn’t vote there but they feel fine plopping a vote on Zorvo with a joking response
if Arete is wolf, this spews Zorvo town imo

@Arete

this is making me feel worse not better in case you were wondering

kind of agree here
I did find Zorvo’s reaction to the push to be a little too defensive (hence my vote D1)

@Arete

is there a reason you think it’s ‘bad’ and not ‘wolfy’?

I don’t like this
it feels like Arete is nitpicking to shift attention to something else

the way it’s phrased is very open and general, which I don’t think is how a town would phrase the question if Zorvo’s usage of the word “bad” pinged them as wolfy

another point is that it reads more as though Arete is trying to trip up Zorvo somehow through the question - it seems the intention behind it is less like Arete trying to gauge Zorvo’s alignment and more like Arete’s mind is already set on Zorvo being a wolf and they’re hoping Zorvo will trip up

I might be reading a bit too much into things here though
and ftr, I think this was wolfy

@Arete

look

I currently think you are being wolfy

I think that basically all of your posts (and particularly your reaction to light pressure) have been either NAI or bad

I weakly think that you made up your read on me after I implied you were TMIing me town although I am less confident in that

but I am not SO CONFIDENT in that that self-voting is a remotely useful or productive response. if you are town you can try doing things like ‘being townie’ or ‘not getting incredibly defensive at 0.0002 pascals of pressure’ and I will plausibly manage to find you

this is actually kind of ok
telling Zorvo to not self-vote is good
the advice is pretty… unhelpful, to put it nicely

content of the post suggests some frustration here from Arete on Zorvo
but it doesn’t feel like the frustration is genuine - previous posts show no indication of irritation

but then again, Arete might have been angered by Zorvo’s emoji

@Arete

VOTE: ElizaThePsycho

anyways I changed my mind I think Eliza is going full commentary-mode (like, more than she normally does)

this felt bad when I first saw it and it still feels bad now
I didn’t say anything about it then b/c it felt like a reasonable enough of a take even though I disagreed with it

it does kind of worry me that Arete can point out how Eliza posting short posts is NAI from knowing Eliza’s meta but thinks the commentary is wolfy
Eliza looked fine to me atp

@Arete

like we are at a sports game and most of us are running around trying to get the ball from one side of the field or the other side of the field, or at least doing a convincing approximation of that, but you don’t actually have an investment in getting the ball anywhere [in this analogy that corresponds to how wolves don’t need to solve the game] and so instead are making like, vague tangential remarks, rather than actually having any investment in figuring out what’s happening

analogies are nice ig
but it feels unnecessary

@Arete

I think that Eliza, rather than having intrinsic motivation to solve the game, is rather acting as a “commentator” who remarks on random things to fill space rather than because they really care about them/believe them/think they are relevant, and that this points to her being mafia who doesn’t need to solve the game [she does some of this as town but I think usually less?]

hrrng yeah
I don’t really like this post

@Arete

my reasoning for thinking this was that it was already an incredibly forced joke and I know you often go in for the idea of ‘I’m going to have over-the-top interactions with my partners to look unaligned,’ which made me think you could be doing that with Magnus

ngl the joke did felt forced
the w/w read was kinda reachy though

@Arete

this is word salad to the point that I am genuinely unsure what it means? my best guess is ‘there are more town than wolves so any individual you do that with is more likely, statistically, to be town than a wolf if you do it at random’ which is true but does not mean it can’t be >rand wolf for you to do it with someone [if the math here is confusing I can explain it more but I don’t think that’s super relevant]

I think you just made it more word-salady

@Arete

I mean I think that you were trying to discredit it I just … think you were doing it disingenuously

more clarification here is probably needed

@Arete

this statement is kind of wild because in fact I did do it in a joke like way and yet he’s trying to use it to shade me

see my previous comments about Arete’s reaction here

@Arete

the thing I was implying is that you were TMIing me town by implying I was being a bad villager rather than a wolf. I think that the actual post you wrote

ok this kind of makes more sense

@Arete

pretty clearly carries that implication

(I’m pretty sure that was sarcasm)

@Arete

(this logic also doesn’t follow but it’s the sort of not following that Seth unfortunately sometimes believes as town)

shifting to a townread here?

@Arete

wheee I’m here very briefly before I sleep

I still like this wheee for some reason

@Arete

…yes, me saying “my reasoning for thinking this [i.e., that you could be w/w with Magnus] was that it was already an incredibly forced joke and I know you often go in for the idea of ‘I’m going to have over-the-top interactions with my partners to look unaligned,’ which made me think you could be doing that with Magnus” was a read.

is this copy pasted?
I feel like I’ve read it already

think I’m just going to skip over the responses to Zorvo

@Arete

I think that your wolfread on me is ~plausibly a thing you believe but that you don’t believe Zorvo’s case is meaningful

and it’s weird that you’re acting like it’s a contributing factor to your read when it’s not

hmm this is ok

@Arete

@Prisma101
why did you change your mind?

I feel like this question is kind of… meaningless?
at least, it’s less meaningful than “why did you vote X?”

@Arete

I kinda think this is a real thought that molly really believes

hrnng this feels a little fake

@Arete

I don’t want to rain on this parade here since they still have a good chance of being town from pure stats but I don’t really think this is townie, this is the sort of thing people read newbies as ‘pure’ for when they’re just honestly confused regardless of alignment. newbie wolves don’t ask literally all of their new questions in wolfchat and Prisma is definitely new regardless of alignment

kind of agree here

@Arete

here are my current reads

not sure I like this list

–
this is getting long so I’m going to end it here and go to sleep
my final conclusion is: I’m cool with leaving my vote on Arete for now (the for now is just b/c idk what will happen in the future)

[Lemonfairy]

and I purposefully didn’t spoiler it so y’all would have to scroll past it

[Lemonfairy]

(you’re welcome)

[Jarek]

VOTE: Arctic

[Arete]

@Lemonfairy

another point is that it reads more as though Arete is trying to trip up Zorvo somehow through the question - it seems the intention behind it is less like Arete trying to gauge Zorvo’s alignment and more like Arete’s mind is already set on Zorvo being a wolf and they’re hoping Zorvo will trip up

I might be reading a bit too much into things here though
and ftr, I think this was wolfy

you’re not reading too much into it you’re just drawing the wrong conclusions – you’re right that that question wasn’t so much a ‘question to figure out his alignment’ as a ‘question where my mind is set on him being a wolf and hoping he would trip up,’ just, the reason for that is that I thought he was a wolf and was hoping that the question would trip him up

(you acknowledged the TMI explanation already so idt it would be helpful to re-explain it)

@Lemonfairy

but it doesn’t feel like the frustration is genuine - previous posts show no indication of irritation

I try not to get Overtly Super Mad at people since I’m a mod and we’re supposed to be role models. unfortunately I am bad at this

also that post was around the time when I was starting to think he could possibly actually be a villager (which is why I was specifically encouraging him to do Something Else Instead Of What He Was Doing) and villagers doing dumb things is 100000x more annoying than wolves doing dumb things

@Lemonfairy

is this copy pasted?

the phrasing is the same but it’s not copypasted (or even deliberately copied at all). I pulled the phrasing out of my brain but I guess I was pulling it out of the same part of my brain or something

@Lemonfairy

not sure I like this list

me neither.

[Host_Account_4]

Arctic (2): Zorvo, Jarek
Arete (1): Lemonfairy

Not Voting (8): Arctic, May, Aleph, Arete, otterpopd, Phraze, mollylikesorigami, Prisma101

[Zorvo]

I do agree with Lemon that May/Arete theoretically could be W/W but I’m not sure about that at the moment.

My main focus and choice of vote today is Arctic and Arete.

@Arete

me neither.

Then why haven’t you been pushing/wolf reading wolves?

[Arete]

@Zorvo

@Arete

me neither.

Then why haven’t you been pushing/wolf reading wolves?

…I quoted a post saying that a past readlist of mine was Not Great, agreeing that it was Not Great. I am not really sure in what world that’s supposed to be a brilliant argument that my reads should have been better.

“oh you think your reads were bad? then why weren’t they, instead, good?”

[Arctic]

why don’t you tell me? there’s a reason it was different (i’ll explain later) but why do you think it was wolfy?