dont worry
we bullied you extensively in dvc
is it funny bullying or mean bullying
uh
a mixture of the two but the second was only where deserved
i donât wanna go to dvc 
you kinda probably should
(most of the âmeanâ bullying was from me so that should probably tell you about it lol)
jarek still voted chloe after kiiru did this?
why was this a 15p
there isnât even a lw
there were just 4 wolves in a 15p because???
and town had negative utility
1 Like
Good thing I didnât sub in when asked eh?
i remembered you saying this and i said on day 3 we should do this but talked myself out of it cuz i really donât think it was fair since i was finding the game really hard too and hadnt found any wolves either
zone and fk yeah, i kinda decided mistyx needed to be killed in one of my last posts because she wasnât trying to be villagery according to herself
im pretty sure i said this after the anon smalltown game too
then look what happened
these two posts were made right after each other
i really fell from grace
no
I said it doesnât matter
In fact I was actually happy
Rolecards, eeveeâs suggested changes and general (and specific) host rant:
As you know, I joined the host team just before christmas, while game started on christmas.
However I did see some setup issues and tried to get several changes through (and failed due to lack of contact to reviewer), so Iâm gonna show you rolecards, analyze them and how I would personally host this game (the analysis part in spoilers just for interested people).
Player-related rant will come in part 2.
1. General
Analysis + Sugested changes
Now there are two issues when it comes to general, non-role related stuff.
Both workable with, but not perfect.
First - scum having 4 members in 15er WITH dooublevoter and two other social roles. It just made it hard for town to push through with theirs opinions, as scum literaly needed one incorrect vote on day 3 to win (doublevoter was not disabled in LyLo initially)
Second - Pure RNG which could swing the game around in unpredictable form.
And it somehow did chose certain players to rand same numbers over and over, making game⌠less fun for them overall.
Now, for the first thing - not much could be done, as game was already ready to send rolecards out, so it was bit too late for any big changes to be made. At most the criticial part was eliminating d3 LyLo with doublevoter hotfix.
For second:
Letâs go with example:
Starting weights for roll each number is 2.
Which means there is 2 / 12 (2-2-2-2-2-2) chance to roll each number - 16,6%
Now letâs say someone rolled â6â for first roll. Increasing odds for next roll to: (3-3-3-3-3-2). Meaning only 12% chance now to roll next 6.
If they roll 6s again, it goes to (4-4-4-4-4-2), meaning only 9% chance to get yet again 6.
So the longer someone is on spree of specific number, the more likely he is to get different number.
Which results in bit more predictable game IN GENERAL, while also meaning that for players roles-situation is⌠more likely to be changing depending on day.
That also helps with 2 roles:
- OMGUS voter - becouse if players are more likely to have different rolls, itâs also means itâs easier to get true result for them.
- mafia neighborizer - as it would be less likely that 3 dices they roll have the same number on them (tho still possible)
Basicly lowering the chance of side scenarios both to make game more rpedicatble for host, more fluid for players as well as lowering the risk of someone having streak of rolls, while still keeping RNG in play.
This would fix a lot, really.
Letâs get to roles tho.
2. Town roles:
Analysis
And thatâs pretty much it.
It forces someone to be correct with 2 reads in vengful, not only one.
Also hard to use if one mafia is remaining.
And itâs not improving with higher rolls, which most roles were meant to do.
But yeah, those are⌠just making it bit harder to use. Nothing actually game breaking here.
Balancewise it was great to have it tho, considering that Vengful is always +1 town based kill, while bulletproof is always -1 town being killed, making game go back to odds vs even. More on this in a moment.
Analysis
And thatâs pretty much main issue with this role.
Solution I suggested?
This pretty much solves everything without need of any massive setup changes.
This way player knows who they want to target BEFORE they actually send the action, so the incoherency issue is gone.
Balancewise?
Good role to have again.
So I guess more on the balance in doublevoter rolecard. /shrug
Analysis
And I still stay by it.
Itâs not a role which needed much changes.
And as I said, itâs not a role which will affect game much.
But a nice thing to have.
Does it guarantee game being 11 vs 4?
It could if it hits very social-able player. But then again, so could most of the roles in hands of capable player.
But remember that all I could suggest were hotfixes. All this were issued when I joined as co-host, which is⌠4 days before the game starts.
No time for rebalancing whole setup. But just enough time to get small changes to keep game more coherent.
Analysis
Oh boy.
This rolecard is AFTER rewording it.
The orginal was even more confusing.
But yeah. Note that main buff this role would get if my pre-game quickfixes were enforced is coming from a general roll distribution. Meaning it would have easier time finding roles.
Pregame I also said that I feel bad for us and whoever rolls it, as itâs gonna be annoying to keep track of times and votes.
Now⌠I would just suggest to limit OMGUS to first vote of the day?
Itâs also a bit iffy due to this role becoming basicly unusable in LyLo, so while it gets stronger with time (more rolls = more accurate results), itâs becoming problematic later.
But yeah, my suggestion of one OMGUS daily + more accurate results due to general changes would already make the game quite a bit easier for this one.
Also, from things I would also do it, but came to me quite a bit later - name this Town OMGUS Cop.
This way it would be more obvious to players what this role actually does (and main part⌠was never really the votes from my PoV).
Note: Doesnât benefit from higher rolls.
3. Mafia roles
Analysis
Easilly best role in this setup.
And one I would nominate for best role award even.
Again, main point of this role was never really to neighborize, so a role name could get bit of a change.
BUT
Additional dice you make people roll, frames them for the OMGUS voter.
Then if you add someone, they are PR role (PRs rolled dices), so you are basicly a cop.
And then you can talk with person you found as PR to get more information about theirs role.
Discovering possibly stuff like vengful or bulletproof, which could change scum aproach to kills on this roles.
But then again, information you gain is not just target someone, get information like with role cop.
You need to actually talk other person through to give you details, despite you knowing in general they are PR.
And the role is coherent.
Like show me one other coherent role, which effectively frames, is able to find PRs, but requires bit of more extra player ability (not just target-get) to get details about it.
Just a great role designwise.
Mind need bit bigger chance for succes when targeting PRs (3 dices is bit not enough).
But again, it would benefit a bit from general predictable RNG change suggested, making it less likely that there will be repeats in 3 dices it rolls. Making it bit more likely to roll same dice as person you target (if they roll any dice at all that is).
And it does fit into the âRNGâ game.
Note: Doesnât benefit from higher rolls.
Analysis
Main issue?
Town gladiators want a 1v1.
This way if they 1v1 scum, other scumamtes, as well as townies are forced to change and cannot live by voting offwagon.
Town gladiator is like drawing a line in middle of room with âVoted scumâ on one side and âvoted townâ on other.
Paradoxally - here, the higher the roll, the more people you gladiate, which makes sense for scum gladiator.
But like⌠I hopped noone would actually claim that higher roll = more people, as it basicly confirms it as scum role.
Thatâs main issue with it.
Which in turn could possibly function well with OMGUS voter finding this roll as liar, if someone went ahead and tried solving by roles. (noone did. Kiiruma even claimed that higher roll = more target, which was a big mistake from my PoV)
Second issue?
Works in LyLo.
Doesnât clarify how close to EoD you can gladiate (you could basiclly use it right before day end and reset all the votes).
So⌠not enough clarifications. Again.
So I hotfixed it to add 24h into the day.
Sorry about this, but this was potentially gamebreaking, so this edit went through.
Analysis
So again, not enough clarifications.
And I did went ahead and disabled doublevoter in LyLo.
Becouse as you saw in this game, game would end after day 3 otherwise. (Night 2 if mafia didnât hit bulletproof).
And yeah, if you think about balance.
Vengful is +1 death.
Bulletproof is -1 death.
Which leads us to Odd vs Even and LyLo.
Which⌠would baiscly end the game in avarge scenario.
That was deemed critical and introduced despite lac of contact to reviewer who could accept it.
4. Summary
Setup is not bad.
Balance of 11v4 with scum doublevoter is questionable. But from my PoV it was not something which could change.
Like as you can see, all the changes I suggested werenât directly reworking any of this roles.
Basicly becouse we were already in âready to send rolecarsâ stage when I was added as co-host.
And to be fair, this changes I suggested would clarify most of the setup issues. Tho 11v4 would still remain.
Changes me and Eli wanted:
Critical (introduced despite lack of contact with reviewer):
- Doublevoter disabled in LyLo/MyLo
- Gladiator adding 24 hours in the day
Standard: (not introduced due to impossibility to get approaval on them):
- Predictable RNG (Helping OMGUS and Neigborizer to get more coherent results)
- Bulletproof knowing own dice roll at start of night
- OMGUS only on first vote of a day
- Remake of vengful to kill first target and have a chance to also kill second basing on roll (this way keeping higher roll = better and making it bit easier to use)
- And a lot of small rolecard clarifications
But even without it, mechanics were interesting. Iâm ususally not a big fan of RNG based setups, but most of a roles here.werenât getting that much more strong with higher rolls to actually become OP.
It needed a bit more polishing.
And possibly reworking the âhigher roll = betterâ part, as over half of this roles were not better with higher roll in the end (OMGUS, Vengful, Neigborizer, Doublevoter).
Iâm giving it a solid 6/10 setup wise.
With mafia neigborzier being one of my favorite roles in recent games.
6 Likes
ngl iâm kind of concerned by the reviewer non-presence
there were some things that clearly needed to be amended which eevee pointed out
2 Likes
I agree; I was the only one to try solving by roles, and I used that to say kiiruma was town
sadness
btw @Jarek, people prob told you this, but you did fine. The only thing I gotta say is to stop worrying about being POEd or scumread because thats not what being town is. As town, you are supposed to hunt for scum. Wolves job is to make themselves look towny. If you are able to distinguish between the two, then that already a major boost to your solving.
Another thing which actually applies to multiple people is to read any replies you see. There are so many moments where I would respond to people and then they would forget that response even exist and it really hurts how I read people because I would have a misperception of what the said players know or I would just be baffled at how they missed a wall of text (and honestly my lynch and probably Chloeâs in my opinion could have been completely avoidable had you simply interacted with the players instead hiding behind your readlist and following it).
Originally it was 12v3 with maf mod poster and town doublevoter
Osie made it what it is now