Also I asked osie about this and he was like
“That’s ok”
eevee’s host rant part 2 - players, strategies and cute eevee pictures.
Let’s start with cute eevee picture.
Picture
So now… I got a few notes.
First:
Stopping the Juggernaut is NOT a strategy for LyLo.
Like even if you read the articly with caution, it says it’s for when you are “aproaching LyLo”.
Asking for whole playebase to reevaluate all theirs reads on LyLo day is asking for a catastrophe if it succedes (as scum just needs one town to reevaluate incorrectly).
And if it fails… it’s probably better, but also most likely gonna lead to town lose.
Stopping the juggernaut is also a… weak strategy?
Not bad, just weak.
Weak in a form that it requires everyone to actually do reevaluation on theirs own. And not all people might be willing to do so.
And if you are in LyLo and need desperately to change the situation… you need to hit everyone way harder than “can you reevaluate your reads, please?”.
Sure, the article itself has some good tips about how to aproach game dominated by wolves.
But that’s about it, which could help in this case.
If you were dominated, weak strategies just won’t work.
So what works then?
If you are in leader position, you could try one of starndard strategies, like vote ordering to increase chance of scum being voted by scum (example - #7: How to Approach LYLO/Must Lynch (by Toganim))
If you are not in town leader position, but you aspire and are ready to bear the guilt of potentialy messing up the game for town, you can just as well onstantly vote person you consider scum.
Like in this case Chloe. They probably should vote Firekitten nearlly first thing into the day, maybe with some hype building beforehand.
This would also nulify some of Firekitten’s upper thread position due to it being unlikely that scum choses him as misslynch target.
Meaning a more or less equal (with even slightly leaning into higher position of challanger) showdown 1v1 for a whole day. (Hi @katze , just like I did to you :P )
And then don’t let people to ever change the discussion topic elsewhere. It’s a 1v1 showdown and that’s all which matters.
But it needs to be instant and expressed as showdown, not as someone “being forced to vote” like Chloe was after 12+ hours here. Instant, confident. Basicly taking the initiative and striking hard.
If you are a macro player and are able to prepare stuff few days earlier in case this situation happens , then there are also tons of gambits which could help, if prepared in advance. Like… making all the scum just out :^) (Hi @Zone_Q11 )
Stupid example, but there is also a lot of different hard-hitting scenarioed gambits wihch you’ve seen me perform several times already.
So yeah, bad strategy for LyLo. Definetely.
Second:
You lacked any depth in analysis types.
Any depth.
Let me list that:
1.Town Micro game
and 2. Scum Micro game
Both were done by pretty much everyone.
A lot of posts, reads, strategies were all about micro.
“Kiiruma is town due to post like this”. “Arctic is town due to post like this” etc.
From the town PoV, everyone was aproaching game like this.
From the scum PoV, everyone was aproaching game like this AND @Litten was very vocal when it came to disrupting town micro reads.
Like… let’s take for example theirs Russian vs American style explanation.
It did derail the discussion. It explained nothing. And it apparently made sense that Kiiruma is town due to it.
Which weren’t exactly questioning. (also @Litten you explained it incorrectly)
Then we have macro gameplay.
3. Town macro game
Non-existant.
No long term plans. No long-term analysis. Nearlly no effective backreading. No vote count analysis.
Hell, I even gave you vote history.
4. Scum macro game
Not much better?
I didn’t see any long term plans, except some jokes of 4-sided wolf gladiator.
Or in general that gladiating a wolf would help you clear them and secure a win.
I mean, that’s something.
But it didn’t really happen and was more of considered a joke than a long-range plan.
5. Town role/setup game analysis
Now this is something which would help A LOT.
Firekitten’s claim was efffective framer to Chloe’s claim. Noone noticed it.
Kiiruma’s role targeting more people with higer rolls made sense for scum, not town. Noone noticed it.
FK role being basicly the same “check the dice roll” as Chloe’s. Noone really pointed that out.
See the point?
Wolfs actually messed up theirs claims in this game.
But town didn’t have anyone to sit down through flips and claims to point that out.
6. Scum setup game
I saw FK doing some complains about setup balance, to secure explaining weird setup problems mentioned earlier.
And that’s pretty much it.
Prevention, but not using setup game to own advantage.
Probably a good decision, considering wolfs had great advantage already.
7. Psychoanalysis
Now, here Fk and Kiiruma were really faliling. They had hard time to be coherent with theirs aproach, motivations and actions.
That’s also what initaly gave them away when Chloe arrived with new PoV.
Becouse Chloe wasn’t exactly focusing on content of any specifc post. All theirs analysis was more about players aproach them, then what is in them to begin with.
Zone and Mist on the other hand were more coherent in this regards, possibly also due to being less active and hence, exposed.
All in all, you lacked different aproaches to the topic.
Everything just focused on post-after-post reading.
And if you look at Chloe’s reads, they were accurate, exactly due to viewing posts from a different angle.
Third:
I’m gonna go with something I don’t usually do, which is host MVPs.
Which paradoxally are here to explain one last note.
Scum MVP is gonna be @Litten, mostly for covering all routes town analysis was going through and securing some of those they didn’t. And basicly controlling game due to it.
Scum Fk went for thread leader position and none of town people actually stood up against it.
I mean in LyLo Chloe did try to become second town leader. - That was great idea, you needed one.
They had bad position and weren’t exactly agressive enough for that.
Not the best strategy choice for how to lead town tho, we covered already that.
And bit of too much of weakness showing. If you want to lead, you cannot exactly say you are still rereading for half of day, even if that’s true.
But I do believe Town MVP goes to @Wazza .
Let me explain.
As I said many times before - leader is just one of ways to play mafia. Very overused one.
But if everyone tries to get own lynch through, then obviously it won’t be a succes.
In this case Wazza was playing one who is meant to follow.
Analyse the two stands in LyLo showdown (Chloe vs Fk+Arctic+Kiiruma (also, why tf anyone allows for 3 vs 1 in LyLo debates)) and despite beign bored and not actively pushing own reads, he fullfilled his role of just reading through both sides points and looking at it form the distance.
It’s way better aproach than what half of you did - trying to join in and push sides.
Like if you all just step back and let the discussion happen and only then think of what side to chose, instead of making it more confusing and one-sided by joining in… you would be in way better situation.
Wazza did theirs job. Paradoxaly, only person I noticed trying to distance themself from the conflict, rather than trying to get in the middle of it.
So yeah, that’s great example why not everyone has to be doing reads, pushing etc. to become one of better playres.
You just need to in general, recognize the situation and do your job.
Last and most important.
Stop freaking angleshooting.
Thank you.
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Also, I want to say this game was battle of ego.
Seriously.
Not everyone has to be a leader.
Not everyone has to interfere in conflicts. Rather opposite - it’s better when its 2 or at most 3-sided conflict with rest making decision about it, not interfering into it.
Just really people, understand that you don’t have to be the one in the middle of battleground to be useful. Especially if you would be interfering in much more important conflicts.
You can just as well sit back, read and then just make a correct decision.
This will both make it easier for you, as well as others.
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lmao
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This is true. But I didn’t really have to be coherent this game, all I had to be was townie.
That being said, it definitely made my life harder in lylo when Chloe subbed in
i think the thing that irritated me the most was you saying how you felt you never had thread control multiple times
it irked me so fucking bad
Arctic was your snowplower, while you drove him into town.
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pretending I don’t have thread influence is funny
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Imagine if it was me
i was gunning for you and zone as soon as i got into thread but i was a late backup, so i was generous to who wanted the slot
it went to chleb and they tried their best, nuff said
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I would have been fine
Most likely, cause arctic was confbias’d as fuck towards his reads (Sry bb but its true)
wazza prolly would have sided with me though, and thats all i need
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I was definitely concerned the most with Wazza this LYLO
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yeah tbh
i dont think mist’s push on wazza earlier this game wasnt bad, but it wasnt good either tbh.
im surprised no one really brought that push back up again, cause it was reachy and it felt like agenda.
I’m sad my copy chat didn’t get any visitors
Paradoxally if you remember most of what I was showing you about different game aproaches and why they are important.
This game is perfect example of that.
Both in different read types, as well as different role types are pretty well shown here.
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btw Eevee, what would long term analysis look like?
Honestly, Simple VCA, Zone looks garbage throughout all 3 (He didnt even fucking vote day 3)
Wazza didnt look to bad, but day 3 was solid, question you ask yourself is why Misty, who wolf read wazza, is on the same fucking wagon with the slot they were pushing against.
Kiiruma no voted 2 days in a row which is a yikes,
Litten was prolly the only one id say you couldnt guess from VCA, outside of maybe day 2, cause his vote was last on the wagon, and secured ATno’s demise
also, all the wolves were on different wagons day 1 lmao, which was a good idea early, but vca shows how kinda
yikes it looks if you have to choose a wolf from each wagon, it looks really bad for all 4 slots, but yeah
semantics with this post, but a solid VCA here actually outs the wolves a bit, mainly zone and kiiruma
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Not saying not doing vca did town in
but they never did proper vca in the first place, which hurts baaaaaaaad.
@Napoleon I almost reflexively said okay to you when you asked me to not answer other peoples questions to you because that is how my intuition first approached the situation, then I realized it was probably better to be stubborn
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Its a learning experince though trust me
ive been down that road before.