it was weaponizing hosts actually. nevermind
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I have in other mafia communities literally had people go “take moderation action against May or I will cancel my game and leave the server”. When people have continued information about their reports, it’s very easy for them to use that information to try to leverage moderator decisions: if they hear no action was taken and they disagree with that, they can abuse that information very very easily, either just lightly by being pushy about “why no action taken why why why why” over and over again (which is not that big an issue) or with literal blackmail like that person tried to do (much bigger issue)
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i think your points are the most convincing so far but i still have some gripes, like how does knowing if action was taken make one part of the moderation process? am i part of the moderation process if someone i reported gets banned on the public mod log?
knowing the end result doesn’t make one part of the process
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this is a very good point
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i feel like the case you’re bringing up here isn’t really applicable to the issue because either
- the issue brought against May is one that the player believes should justify a more extreme moderation action which would be posted on the public moderation log and so they’d know whether or not this action was taken and thus they’d be able to do what you’re saying regardless
- the issue is something that one believes a player should only be warned for or not receive an extreme punishment, just some kind of moderation action which presumably if not carried out the reporter would not explode given it is just a warning
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like yeah we are kind of assuming good behaviour here. and this can be facilitated with arete’s suggestion of revoking asking privileges if you’re annoying
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if we start telling people more stuff about what we do as mods and they become annoying ill just ban them and transparently say they were being annoying
seems like a win/win/win iyam
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the most pertinent scenario i can envision where it makes sense to add feedback on reports is if we had a new player reporting someone believing they have been wronged and/or someone that has broken a rule, and nothing being done about it nor the player being told that what they reported someone for was not actually against the rules / not moderatable
which can easily lead to that player feeling alienated and ignored
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avg katze moderation action
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this debate was really interesting to me because a lot of people fell into the two camps of thought mainly boiling down to “no feedback works better for a small community where we all know each other and things could get awkward” and “new players / those less involved in the community would benefit from feedback on reports to prevent alienization”
ultimately i don’t know how much this all matters outside of fringe cases because i’m not a mod so i don’t know how often new players experience this and this issue hardly even affects me personally because i rarely report anyone for anything and if i did it was obvious moderation was going to be taken
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Because if the end of the report is a warning, then the reporter gets private information that no other user has on whether action was taken. Literally nobody else gets to know that a warning happens. Getting this private information creates a sense that, if you create a report, you are entitled to a greater insight into the moderation process than an average user, and I think that’s the kind of mindset that leads to this kind of manipulation
This is its most extreme version but it also happened in more minor infractions: people reporting me, feeling entitled to follow-up on that report, wanting to know I was being punished for borderline infractions and non-infractions, and that is deeply and intensely uncomfortable for me!
And it’s possible to have this kind of harassment occur in ways that don’t yet register as “being annoying about it” to mods. When moderators talk to somebody and say “no action was taken” ofr the first time, they don’t know how that person will react. Will the person blow up at them? Decide to take things into their own hands? Who fuckin knows!
I just don’t see what benefits that being able to ask whether action was taken provides. Users who make reports aren’t entitled to this information and it doesn’t actually help them to hear this information. It helps people… try to game or blackmail the moderation system, and basically nothing else. Makes them feel slightly better, I guess? I think “report received, thank you” or “this is not against the rules, sorry” are reasonable pieces of feedback to give, but once you get into the territory of saying whether action was taken, that’s too much for me
In a mafia site the problem of weaponisation of moderation to try to solve personal conflicts (ones which do not warrant being moderated) is like extra extra super a thing because of the nature of mafia games, and I think it’s important to keep a good separation between a user report and moderator action being taken because of that. You should not be able to call mods to strike down your enemies like a Twitch streamer and I think that being able to know whether action was taken on a specific report makes people more likely to think they can call mods to strike down their enemies like a Twitch streamer
Issue is who is defining this perimeters and lack of accountability for moderators in this regard
this is valid but i don’t know what the issue with this is because i feel like the same rules against shaming people for moderation actions which are shown on the mod log could apply (if any even exist, idk, but unspokenly)
information about moderation is not equal between every player - in the same way i could say a player who is warned has more information about the moderation process than anybody else. is that problematic? there’s no way around this because not every part of moderation is made public, and it’s not just a case of “nobody except the mods know” - there are people who know more by virtue of being involved in incidents and that just happens
the way you are talking about these people make me feel as though they are reacting in the same way to not knowing whether moderation was taken against you as they would if they knew moderation was not taken against you. like it seems like they are annoyed unless they know something happened, and not being told isn’t going to placate them, which is how things are currently handled here
the benefits are
-clarifying what is against the rules and what isn’t
-making people feel like they were listened to
-giving people closure on their report
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I don’t think people deserve closure
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truuu
i mean… yeah?
i agree with this. i just don’t think it’s a bad thing that people are more informed about what constitutes something being reportable. that is one of the points i’m listing as an advantage for giving feedback, actually. and this can also reduce the frequency of incorrect reports, because people are more informed about what constitutes moderation
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I do not think it is a bad thing to be able to call mods to strike down your enemies if said enemies are actually breaking the rules
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Closure avoids spill over and derailing of games, as well as prevents the situation from escalating
i think that people are wallposting too much
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