Flicker! FM - The Kidnapper Team Will Strike Again...

[Leafia]

Laughs That made me laugh IRL admittedly.

[Jarek]

@Memes

If she was scum, she’d shade that list if there were town in that list to make some townies look bad if she flips first or to look good if her teammate in that list flips first.

That was my point actually yeah

[Atlas]

convincing people is half of the game

[Leafia]

So where do.you stand now in the freat Leafia/May Debate of 2022? If you have any questions for me, I’m free to answer them for the next 18-19 minutes.

[Jarek]

Just feel free to read my thing on you and see if you can argue against me that’d be good enough. aside from that, I want to say you but I hate that.

[May]

I had two main wolfteams in my mind. O kazo fit with one of them. Didn’t fit with the other. The thing keeping me from sussing Leafia was that she didn’t fit in with the O kazo wolfteam. “What were the teams?” Well see I forgot :frogge: (though I can point to O kazo and Leafia’s lack of scum equity, Leafia treated O kazo like a misvote in a few select ways)

[Leafia]

You want to say that I’m the villager or the wolf? Also, I’ll do that now.

[Jarek]

Wolf, but that’s because my case for may was harder to make. Maybe that makes them the wolf. Aargh.

[May]

Yeah, and usually it’s the half I’m good at, and I just struggle having correct reads in the first place… honestly, I think it’s just the continually being N1ed thing, I never have time to get into a readable phase of the game in the first place.

[Atlas]

its fair enough
it doesn’t give you much experience but i still want to talk to people about why they scumread me
otherwise i have to either write it off or think its scummy

[May]

Alright well now I have to go somehow get relegated from the bottom tier of my own competitive Super Auto Pets league I believe in myself I’m gonna have to make a terrible, lower tier just for me. All for me. So I’ll be fully out for a while, hopefully tonight I can actually get it together and make my cases

[Atlas]

also memes when you come back can you address your read aswell
specifically about what you found scummy about my read on jarek

[Memes]

And ISOing yourself does not refresh your memory?

[Memes]

TOWN

Silly
Neon
Leafia
Jarek
Zorvo
Phraze

SCUM

Lemon
Jaiden
May
Atlas

Switching May and Leafia to see if it makes sense

[May]

I think the O kazo one involved Neon, because of that flashwagon, and something to do with Zorvo. I haven’t fully worked out every wolfread I would have made if O kazo flipped scum, since it didn’t happen, but I could go through the thought process I’d have if you want. It’d be a waste of time, though.

[May]

I’ll get better at explaining my thought process when I start living past N2 more often. I can fetch my list. It’s dire.

[Leafia]

@Jarek

Entered the thread and declared Okazo a lost villager and townleaned them for it, because if they were a wolf they’d be asking their teammates for help. Which is fair. I Can see that. However, this assessment is not hard to make when you consider that if they are a wolf themselves they would know that this person is a villager.

While true that I could do that as a wolf, and admittedly probably would, I’d also do it as a villager so it isn’t really ai.

@Jarek

In response to me declaring Okazo & Zorvo are alligned they agreed with me. In fact they seem to agree with a lot of things people are saying

I’m pretty agreeable at times although I haven’t agreed with everything people have said. I’ve given my own unique reads at times too, something I don’t tend to do as a wolf.

@Jarek

They like Magnus, and declare they have a villagery feel for their posts. Is this TMI that magnus is a villager and they know it? Why can’t they explain it? They are voting LemonFairy, who could be a wolf teammate based on what I think - But this could be an early pocket attempt by siding with a vocal townies vote on a wolf to get some early creds if the wolf goes over, and to begin to dissassociate early.

I’m not good at explaining my reads and my read on Magnus was mostly due to how solvy he was as well as gut.

As for the vote on Lemon, if we were w/w, I would’ve kept it up. I’m not sure how I would’ve acted as a wolf in worlds where Lemon is v.

@Jarek

@Leafia

Out of the four, from most likely to be a wolf to least likely, I’d order them this way: Lemon, Neon, Sillykitty, and Jarek.

Then magnus says there’s a wolf in these four, myself included, agrees and gives a list from most to least in their own opinion. It could be two villagers agreeing with eachother, especially with the town-read, but it could also be more of a pocketing attempt. If I’m looking at this as if I’m convinced they are a wolf, this IS a pocketing attempt. Why would magnus die later on then? Especially with Magnus town reading Leafia so much? Dual purpose reason, in my opinion. Magnus is loud and more importantly, a Power role. He needs to die. Doesn’t matter what wolves are pocketing him. Best thing you can do in that situation is get a town-read from him and then murder him to point at it later, right? It would make sense to me.

Memes was claiming vig too and threatening to shoot me. He would’ve been a better kill if I was a wolf because if he had shot me, he would’ve become locktown.

@Jarek

At #2431 they make a point against neon, seems like they both think SK was wolfy (at the time) and think that Neon’s reason for townreading them is flimsy because they only TR them for defending them. Leafia seems to think SK voting them is wolfy. Could be a wolf seeing two people making connections early and seeking to stop it, or prod at it? maybe they suspect a mason? my case here is flimsy. Maybe SK and Leafia are distancing here?

I highly doubt masons are possible in this setup.

@Jarek

@Leafia

Yeah. That would definitely be for the best. Putting my vote here for now.

Zorvo wants SK/Okazo to go over and they vote Okazo. They town-read Okazo earlier, They wolf-read SK. what’s the vote with Okazo doing there if they wolf-read SK? I may have missed something but I didn’t see anything change. Feel free to look into that yourself I could be wrong but if I’m not, definitely odd. The post later on goes on to declare that SK a little later on. The defense they have is apparently villagery. I don’t know if I believe that or not but everyone else can decide.

I don’t remember ever townreading O.kazo.

@Jarek

@Leafia

I wouldn’t say obvious wolf but it doesn’t look good for Lemon.

A bit odd to defend Lemon from being called obvious here. From my “objectively this person is a wolf” bias, they’re trying to down-play the fact a wolf did in fact just get outed. If true, they got away with it. because Lemon is still alive.

Except a wolf didn’t get outed there.

@Jarek

@Leafia

Not w/w with Neon. Not sure if it’s tvt yet though and if one of them is a rolf, I’m leaning towards it being Atlas.

Distancing if Atlas is a wolf.

Lots of fluff. They support an Okazo execution but at the time who didn’t.

This is a bit of a stretch here I think.

@Jarek

@Leafia

Hmmm, I’d have to say Magnus right now, although Zorvo is a very close second.

Feels like theatre.

Not how theatre works.

@Jarek

@Leafia

If Atlas ends up flipping wolf, I’m almost willing to put SK into my towncore at this point.

Could this imply that if Leafia is a wolf bussing Atlas, SK is a deepwolf here? It’s interesting. Why is SK town-core if Atlas flips here? I’m missng something that’s for sure.

Because SK was also trying to get Atlas executed and I was already townreading SK at the time.

@Jarek

@Leafia

Ah okay. I’ll keep that in mind too and in case you’re a villager, I have this to say to you. You shouldn’t give up now just because things look bad. We can still pull through this and win if we take a step back and think carefully about who the evils could be. I’m not feeling the least bit confident myself, but at least I haven’t given up and I don’t think you should either. All us villagers need to work as a team to have any shot at victory now.

The last time someone tried to motivational talk me it was Kiiruma and they ended up being a wolf who made me follow their vote because I trusted them. Pep talks are nice, but they can be devious.

Really? I don’t think the thought eould’ve occured to me if I was a wolf and it would’ve been easier to get him misexed.

@Jarek

@Leafia

I read it and it’s a compelling one I have to admit. I’d say chances are very high that there’s a wolf in you/Neon.

@Leafia

VOTE: Jarek

After reading my case Against Neon, they decide that I’m the vote. Kinda funny.

After that, they agree with both me & Memes on both sides of our argument. This has been pointed out as scummy behaviour by a few people and I agree. Seems like an attempt to fuel both sides of the argument. They also want me to die with the following argument:

Because you wanted to be executed so you could get a shot off and I’m tired of this game already. Plus, I trusted your judgement at the time.

@Jarek

@Leafia

You also said that Jarek and I are never w/w here and I’m not the one being opportunistic. You literally voted me earlier and started trying to talk Jarek into killing me. I don’t know if he’s a wolf or not honestly, but the way I see it is that he’s either a wolf or he’ll be able to potentially shoot a wolf tonight if he’s executed and telling the truth and if he does that, it’ll give us an extra day. Worst case scenario is if he shoots a villager and we lose but at least if he does that the game will be over and the pressure to find the wolves will be gone. Also, unlike you, I’ve never taken my vote off of him.

The last part “If he shoots a village we lose but if he does the game will be over and the presssure to find the wolves will be gone” is a very odd statement to make for a townie who is voting someone they believe to be a townie, when you could just defend me instead and vote a scum and not have to kill a townie and potentially lose the game to do it. It’s not like Leafia has been in any big arguments this game where they’d be mentally taxed and willing to take an easier way out - I’d accept this line of thinking from Atlas or myself, but not from Leafia,. It’s odd.

We’ve misexed twice. That in itself is taxing. We also have a high chance of losing this no matter how today goes. Not only that, but I’ve been pushed on most of today if not all of it by various people. That’s also very taxing.

@Jarek

I dunno. Odd statement to make in my opinion. This kind of line of thinking is exactly why someone leaves someone alive so they can use this argument against them. Magnus & Lol were better kills. Memes was, in his own words, a pocketed vigilante to a wolf. They’d never kill him. If Leafia is a wolf, this is them trying to get out of the tight spot of being scumread using other peoples’ townreads on them as a defense rather than anything else. They could Mis-exe memes, but perhaps there’s concern that memes would know right away what’s going on and would push hard against it.

He had already stated that he had no plans to defend himself. Misexeing him while his wim us gone is always the play if I’m a wolf.

[Jarek]

I will read this when possilbe

[Neon]

Angy

[Atlas]

also im going to be busy for a bit for personal reasons
please can people explain their reasoning on me so i can get to them when i can