GOAT^2 - Game Thread (5/15) - Day 6 - Mafia wonnered

[May]

@BradLand

No, fuck no, never fake a red.

Literally went through a game on MU last month, yeeted strong mafia with a strong role Day 1, game got entirely fucking ruined Day 2 with a fake red on a person that was obvious town and had good reads.

Like that’s just fucking auto-blacklist/policy kill every game for me.

But… teehee funnie

19/150

[min]

Town can never lie

Which is why I claim joat and wolves will believe me

[KingTroll]

why may is a wolf: a non-omgus reason for voting may

ooo i get to defend myself this is so cool. title is a joke i’m not going to vote may

@May

No, what I’m saying here does not constitute communication of evidence, but I have no idea how the rest of you play mafia without being able to See the textures.

honestly understand this 100% i get what you’re saying. can’t really defend my jokes so you’ll have to trust that i have the same horrid sense of mafia humor as town or wolf

@May

The word “interesting” is a wolftell.

it’s more of a ‘yeah this statement will be relevant later’ bookmark that i can use when i self-iso myself later out of vanity. posts and relationships i think will have more weight later on in the game than singular posts i’m willing to make full reads on

@May

(@KingTroll pls elaborate on what it is)

you got it sure

things lol has said that i think have been ai

@lol

we have 150 posts not 50 lol

@lol

73/150

@lol

194/150

@lol

i think seth is mafia since only mafia wouldnt know that there are actually 50 posts per day and not 150 it says so in town rolecards

@lol

ok
20/150

lol tunneling into the post counts after they were first brought up and continuously saying how frivolous they are strikes townie vibes pretty obviously. a wolf would absolutely be trying to make town waste posts on bad topics yeah but lol has just been working it as a joke

@lol

just dont vote then lol theres no wagons anyway

on the other hand not getting full use out of your vote is kinda . bit scummy

yeah lol is also in the rvs phase and i respect that because i too am in the rvs phase but saying that he’s done nothing ai is kinda weird which is why i brought that up towards silv

@May

Rolling a die for ISOs (and publicly stating that he had done so) also feels like a way to get out of having to have natural thought progression

eh. bit of a stretch i’m mostly using it as a way to get my brain cracking on people. no one’s really stuck out to me so i’m just going to keep doing random isos until i find something i can actually hook onto. also i realized i haven’t made any substance of my own to actually talk to people about lmao

@May

KingTroll’s attempt at doing so with their catch-up post just felt unrealistic and insubstantial

i would like to do more substantial catch-up posts but we will have to wait to day 2 at the earliest. only a five hundred post game

@May

now he’s done away with it altogether.

true though

@May

I’m going to toss in another VOTE: KingTroll on this post, just to signify that my vote has gone from “RVS joke” to “actual read”.

respect

@May

Consider: you don’t have to tell the truth about your reads, no matter your alignment.

@May

Lie! Lying is so cool! Do it as town!

okay this is your first statement in your push against me that genuinely has triggered an alarm. no if i lie and put someone i townread in my scum poe and someone from my scum poe into my townreads then, as follows

@May

Bait the wolves into killing your scumreads to get them out of your PoE!

this is my stated intent by not putting my townreads on display d1. but if i put an actual wolf i’m scumreading into my townreads and i die then i will be dead with a wolf in my townreads

@May

You have to fake it until you make it.

this is true though

@May

Being confident enough in a scumread to fakeclaim a redcheck on them is like, my dream.

in my personal opinion reaction tests are actually scummy as hell to pull out. you’re depending on someone’s reaction to a mechanical decision and arbitrarily deciding if you want to push them or not by their reaction. it’s simply an easier scumplay than smoke and mirroring a case and you can use it to ‘clear’ a maf buddy

@May

I realize that this is maybe not a good or pro-town opinion of mine, but it’s a fun one.

fair. there are some games and scenarios where lying as town has benefits but i am simply not going to do it d1

wagon may guys don’t read the details just sheep me

[Marluxion]

I have nothing else for you rn captain, return to your duties

[Marluxion]

Further questioning may be required when I’m not in bed trying to sleep

420/69

[BradLand]

That…defense from Troll might be towny.

Seeing random stuff like explaining the “interesting” post as a self reminder if he searches himself Ew and spots that for future reference sounds like a town mindset, although it’s just a theory post, revealing it is a nice thing to have.
Also the clearing as to why he’s not stating his townreads or why mine was cringe is good as well.

Would like to see what his solving looks like whenever he gets around to it, but for now for his defense I will put a townlean on him.

[KingTroll]

@BradLand

Would like to see what his solving looks like whenever he gets around to it, but for now for his defense I will put a townlean on him.

ugghhh i’m actually going to have to play the game and not just surf huh. sad okay

[May]

For the record, my opinion on lying as town (that it’s cool and based and fun) was stated, expressed, and proven extensively in the last game I played (Flicker). I townread someone, decided to start a wagon on them for fun anyway, saw that it built too quickly for such a weak case, and then used that to flip my read on them and catch two of their bussing partners (both of whom I had both previously townread). I proceeded to not be believed and eventually got voted out, but hey, you win some, you lose some.

[BradLand]

I mean, reading your explanations, I could try to trust the process and leave you alone Day 1 in regards to that.

Just gonna have to step in if I see something I’m not a fan of, but I’m not going to be obnoxious about it or anything.

[May]

I’ve realized that expressing my passion for pushing bad suspicions as a reaction test just after posting my case on KingTroll was a mistake, but I promise this is a real case that I actually believe and KingTroll is my #1 suspicion right now. Does anyone besides Brad have opinions on it?

& BTW if any of you pointedly avoid responding to this because you don’t want me to analyze your reaction that’s a wolftell

21/150

[May]

@May

& BTW if any of you pointedly avoid responding to this because you don’t want me to analyze your reaction that’s a wolftell

Every single one of you is a wolf [this is a joke I’m not that impatient I prommy]

22/150

[Zorvo]

@May

Do this every single day.

They did.
Lying isn’t AI for May but lying is AI for @min
Min wAs a lying wolf.

[Zorvo]

Crap I forgot my post number

[BradLand]

@May

Does anyone besides Brad have opinions on it

[KingTroll]

@May

any of you pointedly avoid responding to this because you don’t want me to analyze your reaction that’s a wolftell

aren’t supposed to be saying that part out loud I was going to look at who was ignoring it…

[Vulgard]

@KingTroll

no townreads on d1 lmao. we’ve got 15 players let people you don’t really have reads on and people you want to survive mix so scum can help do some of your poe for you instead of giving them a handy list imo

Okay I guess? Doesn’t this literally not matter, though, because wolves will be PR hunting regardless?

[min]

I just made a long post only to uh

Delete it because I was thinking of something different

Anyway I don’t agree with your case tbh. It seems like you find him wolfy because of things I feel the average person does in mafia games (quotewalls, randomly isoing people)

None of that is wolfy. Quotewalls are very common especially on mobile, and there are many examples of people randomly deciding to iso someone

Although if I’m misrepping something in your case feel free to dumb it down for me so I can understand if

[min]

FYI

Using meta for things that are very malleable (such as lying) is almost never a good idea. Someone who actively plays mafia can and will change their meta so lying isn’t ai anymore

Most of the “lies” I told weren’t even “lies” and were misunderstandings anyway

Just like, a tip

[Vulgard]

@May

The way they joke here just feels off to me. There’s a weird texture to it… the best way I can explain is that it reads like a wolf trying to imitate a jokey townie.

I got that from lol but not from KT.

@May

The way he noted that he’d make those jokes as either alignment is slightly misaligned, like running your hand over two tables that’ve been shoved together and noticing the ever-so-slight difference in height between them.

This metaphor reminds me of Litten’s helicopter read in Starship Epiphron, and Litten was a wolf. The entire read feels really forced to me, and the posts afterward strike me as performative. That said, I feel like some of this is intentional baiting so I’m not going to read too much into it.

KT’s reaction to the post is weird, because he agrees with the parts that are about his actual content, but disagrees with the parts where May talks about how people should play the game, which is like… okay, that’s not the actual substance of the case and moreso something May believes about mafia as a whole. Finding those beliefs suspicious but the forced (imo) case not suspicious feels like he doesn’t even care about the case itself and just wanted to argue about principles, which is… towny, I guess?

I had a townread on both of these slots independently before this whole casing thing happened so I’m honestly not sure what to make of it, especially since now that they’ve both admitted they like lying on day 1 I don’t know how much I should weigh what they said just now vs what I was reading them town for before. Still thinking they’re probably both town?

[mollylikesorigami]

@Silviu200530

We can’t win if you rubberstamp your votes without explaining it ya know. And I wonder if you played Paper Mario. The Origami King:tm:

i’ve never played it, i’ve heard it’s cool but i never find the motivation for long form games like that :(

yeah sure, i can explain my vote, all you have to do is ask

@Silviu200530

Reminder to try to find town and try to work with them. So we can try to intense tactic of boxing:tm: if not, we will lose.

@Silviu200530

Man, I wonder how will the postcap change me as I am no longer allowed to hyperpost, I suppose I’ll just follow it up with being productive so this comment doesn’t go to waste.

@Silviu200530

Reminder to try to find town and try to work with them. So we can try to intense tactic of boxing:tm: if not, we will lose.

I am not trying to be mean or anything, it’s very great when people improve. But a weakpoint in Seth is that he goes overboard with his reasoning, it becomes incomprehensible, he doesn’t feel like a threat at all (during Flicker, there weren’t any important discussion to eliminate Seth during that game). I believe we need to be encouraging with trying to get a person’s thought process as that’s what it’s vital. Why would reads care if we can’t tell how we didn’t go there? (By the way, Troll, Seth = Zorvo, this guy changes his username too frequently!)

@ElizaThePsycho

jokes on you he’s recieved nearly 8k likes
no way you post 8k times this game

Also Eliza, also to not be mean. But you really have to step up your game. During most game I’ve seen, you’re losing engagement and dissapear, maybe you are busy, but there’s also people who can be busy with their lives and still manage to get townread. The reason why you precisely get scumread (presumably) is because you pop into the thread and the backlog looks intimidating, so you think you will do better if you comment to what pops up on the spot, but well, that doesn’t always work, you can’t make your mind up based on a few selective posts, you need to look at the behavior in general.
For example, w!Windy from what I’ve heard is cowardly. w!Seth from what I’ve seen they’re not popping up in the spotlight as often, T!Neon has frustrations that she gathers from the game and so on. But to prevent myslynching somebody because “this behavior is inherently wolfy” we have to also look for the reason why they’re doing that. It’s all great detective work! But sadly, they kind of never deduced what happened in Flicker!.. I hope this helps.

Also meta-read for Trollo, not sure how effective this is, this is just a blind guess as people can literally be different when they’re playing FM, like me right now. This is the first time in like 5y+ he decided to play again. I would presume Trollo would be hyperactive and I suppose impulsive when an upsetting situation arises, but no worries, I don’t think he will done legit get Happy Tree House levels of upset.

it was for these two, they both came off as varying amounts of wolfily empty

the first was like, lol, you’re saying water is wet. looking around the room, i don’t think anyone here actually needed you to tell them that? just looks like standard fake helpfulness.

the second one was the bigger reason. you talked a long, long time about zorvo and eliza, but none of it was alignment related, and the worse part is that the advice you gave each of them had the attitude of assuming they were town. like, you’re telling zorvo how to be more threatening to wolves, and you’re telling eliza how not to get ml’ed, even though you haven’t expressed a townread (or read at all) on either. the troll read goes similarly nowhere, but it isn’t the same kind of borderline tmiey.

i’m looking through some of your later posts, and they’re better in the sense that there are actual game thoughts, but i’m not getting the sene that you actually… care? about the greater mystery, like you only started solving once you sat yourself down and made yourself, and even then it feels like the reads are a bit checklisty/obligatory, like how you brought up a bunch of people and events you had nothing to say about in your readlist. (i think the points in this paragraph are relatively weak and am not putting a lot of weight in them.)

idk none of these things are damning to me on their own, but for the stretch of time until your list it feels like you’re taking in and processing a lot of good, useful information, and it’s just inspiring… nothing in you. reading through that would get most villagers thinking, just by virtue of not knowing. they wouldn’t need to “turn on” their solving mode or anything, because it’s… not a mode.