Hydra-Optional Vig10er - Day 4 - Town Wins

Forum Games Completed
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#5262

How can anyone have vig TMI anyway?

#5263

answering for chloe before i go to sleep

she meant TMI that the vig claim was town

typically if you’re a wolf who knows the vig claimer is a villager you dont assume its a fakeclaim immediately (typically – if it were me then maybe :wowee:)

but yeh she worded that message dumbly

@FPSers can you talk to me about your current worldview? like, as much as you can go over – who’s town, why are they town, whos mafia, why are they mafia, who are you unsrue about, etc etc (preferably this answer is collaborative between both heads, but iirc you said brad was sick so fair enuff if he doesnt want to)

just. talk. a lot.

others are free to answer this too, but i have a very particular reason to ask specifically that slot about it

prob wont be around long but ill vaguely lurk thread while awake jic
–k

#5264

@katze @cat

Do you want a collaborative answer or do you not mind us answering singularly?

  • Brad
#5265

i dont mind either way but im probably not going to read it until i wake up

#5266

I’m putting at the top right now that this is BRADLAND posting this incase you had any questions on it.

  • Bird

The initial start of me townreading them is the fact that they went to me around the start of Day 1 asking about what we were talking about months ago on Discord (a conversation about how I make myself obvious town in most games) and I thought it was a fair point asking when that part of me was coming out.

I didn’t like their EOD1 because they were very unnoticeable while chaos was reigning on the game, but then they completely rebounded with their EOD2 in voting out TSP.
In this case I would be absolutely shocked if they were mafia.

  • Cat

So as I’ve stated before, I was initially stepping back and refraining from putting any type of read on the Cat slot since both have snowed me individually in the past.
Aelin said that she townread the slot very early on and I decided to sponge the read and add Cat to my townreads.

The entirety of their game was basically fighting TSP, before going after Hood and getting them voted Day 1, then proceeding to go back to fighting TSP and eventually voting them out during EOD2 after an entire discussion through the entire hour of EOD.
There was a post earlier in this day phase (Day 3) where Chloe explained that she let Katze take control in the EOD and discussion due to being prone to town reading strong wolves. I think if they were partners they would probably hide in that dilemma and use that as an excuse to not vote TSP at all.

The final thing is indeed the kill that was made after the TSP death. I do believe that they would leave 2W1H alive if them and LBW are TvT and pile on and get LBW yeeted, then just night kill 2W1H after their use was finished.

I don’t think w!BothCatHeads would make that WIFOM style kill. Feel like they’d be more about just killing the person that scumread them the most at the time and move on.
So that would make them town #2 for me.

  • LeafiaButWorse

I’ll let Aelin explain her side of the story, but I knew the slot was posting at SOD1, but didn’t take much note of what they were saying since there were some bigger posters and my partner drowning the thread and I missed out on what they had said. When I iso’d them to see if I was missing something, I figured that their iso was fine although I think I was just glad that they decided to townread my slot (Mostly thanks to Aelin I assume) which was a nice change for once. Nothing really pinged me about them at all. Plus Aelin has a strong townread on them then and still does.

The rest of my memory about them was them and 2W1H being stuck in a 1 vs 1 (Or 2 vs 2 since they’re both hydras!) that was paralleling the TSP vs Cat situation. I didn’t read this as much because it was during Day 2 when I was sleeping constantly because of being sick.

But when I came onto EOD2 I saw their vote was on Aelin and I’s slot. No idea where or the hell this switch came from, but looked bad nontheless.

When I spoke to YBW himself, literally his reason for allowing the vote to be on us is “I trust Leafia’s read on you in the situation, she’s really sure on you being a wolf.” Now let’s keep in mind, this is Leafia we’re talking about here, the individual who has resorted to scumreading me every game that we’ve been in together and was wrong on every single one of those games, except for the most recent Poisonous game…which doesn’t really mean anything when you miss-scumread me in the previous 8 games we played together.

In no way does YBW stay with trusting Leafia’s read in this situation if he’s town. Not a single bit.
Finally, the night kill does indeed have glaring points to Leafia being a wolf.

  • IDRC

I’ve explained what I saw from Dum in a previous game. I asked the dude for his reads Day 1, he explained “I don’t give reads Day 1” and after looking through his iso in the Cats game on MU and seeing he said the same thing I shrugged and kept a note to ask him Day 2 when he would be more ready and there was more info.

I asked him again Day 2 for his reads, and even told Aelin to poke him to see what he has to say. When I got back on I asked Dum once again what his reads were and asked where the audacity he had in the MU game went, he finally responded with a 3 person POE that included TSP/Cat/Bird.

And when I came back to EOD he was also among the players that was voting Aelin and I. Which is a massive “hell nah.” Which you combined with having NO VOTES on Day 1 it’s an awful look.

The NEXT day phase IDRC, or more Eevee, comes in swinging for the fences trying to say that wolf is between Cats and ourselves (Aelin and I), the 2 players that were voting out TSP, and basically played the “Cats are trying to frame Leafia with the night kill” argument…which ironically is what I’d think Eevee would try doing more than Cats.

So that would be why LBW and IDRC are my remaining POE in this game.

@cat @katze @Chloe

I’ll tag the both of you in the hydra and individually because LOOK AT ME!

  • BradLand
1 Like
#5267

Puts face into hands as epicmafia memories shoot through my brain and leaves me in a depressive state.

  • brad :cry:
#5268

Also I tried to make that less of an eyestrain and made sure to not jumble up the paragraphs.

And with that I’m going to go to bed.

Good night everyone.

  • BradLand
#5269

I wasn’t sure on you being a wolf there. It was paranoia that you could be one and thinking that if you were a wolf that if we didn’t execute you D2, we’d just lose. It took a lot of convincing to convince YBW that executing you was the right choice, but I managed to convince him. I hope that clears things up a bit. It was the same situation as D7 of poisonous plants where the poisoned slot hardpushed me out of paranoia that I was the last wolf. :sleepingleafeon:

#5270

Hugs comfortingly with a leafhug :sleepingleafeon:

#5271

I belive you belive this

its just wrong

you cant expect me to peform like i did in those games if im trying to play different

the PoE also changed before i voted you and you negleted to include that

also bad PoE, if i die dont throw by killing leafia

-Dum

#5272

Good, you are on a good track.
So if we are not doing this and instead go for way harder lynch… what does it means?

#5273

ribbit
five people alive
am one of them
others
cat
lbw
birdbee
idrc

cat - found them to be towny early on
we had a long of similar pings to the same posts and they were very quick to mention them, including the one on tsp
i am aware that both heads are good enough to objectively look at posts however which is why this is not the be all end all, but i still think it’s a good look that it was constantly happening
however
as the day progressed it happened less and it felt like once cat’s position was more secure they stopped caring as much which i found wolfy because it seemed um
i just woke up and cant remember the word
its like “outwardly materialistic” like you want to appear pretty and good looking to other people
like
performative but stronger
whatever
ummm
so
about mid d2 is when my paranoia started to fade because they had a string of tonally-towny posts rather than towny content and imo tone is harder to fake for them and i think i said something like “oh good, youre back to being towny” or something like that and i just kinda acknowledged it and started focusing on tsp more
and
as i said earlier today they had ample reason to vote me at the last eod and it wouldnt have looked like terrible progression and it wouldve let to an almost free win if they were a wolf because i can instantly think of an almost foolproof way to win as a wolf there
(for posterities’ sake, it would be - vote me for hammer, kill birdsbee at night, come into day and continue the thunderdome with tps and most likely kill them due to the dome with flipped!me, and then kill idrc at night, come into lylo by telling kiiruma not to snapvote, that you know he’s town but you need to reread leafia first in order to make sure, in which case kiiruma will usually snapvote leafia in response for his ego-push, resulting in a win)
so
that not happening is a good look
but the kiiruma death gives me a small amount of paranoia simply because it’s not them dying
imo the most likely deaths were cat → us → birdsbee → kiiruma last night so its odd that the first three were bypassed

lbw

one thing to clarify

this is incorrect (from brad)
indeed i have been townleaning them for most of the game
however, out of kiiruma/them i had kiiruma as a stronger town, and it felt weird
like
leafia kinda felt like town leafia
she didnt feel like scum leafia
but she didnt feel exactly like normal town leafia
and ybw wasnt actively towny
he just wasnt actively scummy :star: more on this later
so
overall
i have never been very confident on the lbw slot
on top of that they had verrrry poor reasoning on their vote on me at eod2 that really seemed to mostly defy logic and they still got very defensive over it
however
a point in their favor is that even when i kinda looked like i had a chance to go over (i think it was 3-3) lbw still wanted to split off and go back to wagoning kiiruma and their continued insistence was
and i have really no better way to say it
so dumb that i think i really want to believe that it could only come from town
now
back to today
kiiruma died overnight and lbw as a collective literally just hardly batted an eye at it, went “oh, guess eevee was right” and moved on like
four minutes after sod in this post
also
in this post

well
that sure doesnt look like how you guys have been acting today
image
also
i do think that in the case the team is lbw/tsp, with tsp dead lbw’s first thought could very easily be “kiiruma is going to push me til theyre dead and theyre towny in everyone elses eyes, we should kill them” (or maybe just “kiiruma is going to push me til theyre dead”)

ok
back to the star from earlier
ybw was absolutely disgustingly scummy in scp game and was only saved by the combined graces of bad townplay and good scumplay by his teammates
and here he sounded… ok? like
not flopping soggy spaghetti
however
he has MASSIVELY dropped off
and a small amount of me is paranoid its because he was getting his posts fed through the orangerete machine and now that theyre gone instead of posting and having weaker posts he made the decision to almost entirely stop posting

thefourbirdsandabee

so my initial worries about them were the fact that they werent towny enough
i usually have a pretty strong read on tro, a la most games weve played together
for reference, see Risky Light Game where i scumread them within my first ten posts (and they were scum)
however
it was weird because felix was the only one not being towny out of them/soren/abby
abby was decently tonally pure and soren was very content-heavy
on top of that they had one or two posts at eod2 that literally made me look and go “yeah, theyre just town here” and made me very regretful that i didnt get to say it before day ended because i thought there was a nonzero chance i died at night

specifically the last part

so
like
uh
yeah nod nod
oh
also their vote at eod2 is towny
duh
lol

idrc

so like
theyve been at the edge of my poe all game but most of it was for low content (i get it eevee, you guys “had a lot of content and we just have different definitions of content” and i really just dont care? like
i dont care how different our definitions of content are i feel like the bare minimum of agreement should be somewhere around “it actually exists”)
but they were just
actively refusing to give reads
like
d2 their only read was kiiruma/lbw was v/v and like
so much had gone on that it felt incredibly bad and out of place to a degree where it was like “yeah… no? just… no?”
and of course their eod1 was “not voting” and their eod2 vote was us, and their reasoning for that wasnt very good once again
side note
it felt like a lot of people were referencing each other for the reasoning for their votes
anyway
uh
i had a lot of paranoia on the slot because “sitting back and letting thread burn” would most definitely be a wolf!eevee tactic because it requires the least amount of effort and its harder for people to read you the less posts you have
and when he came back he could literally just hide behind the fact that he thinks d1s are useless and he was letting dum do most of the work
both of which he has done
now
today
hes been argumentative and mostly repelling people from his reading his slot by being aggressive towards him
anyway
heres the thing i noted (and wrote) last night
i didnt want to post it last night because i am assuming it will essentially close off all communication between our and idrc’s slots
but
here it is

  1. They’re tonally bad
  2. They’re lacking in content
  3. They have nothing going for them in terms of VCA
  4. They’ve been playing it exactly how I think scum would play it if they knew they were in a bad position with nearly half of the game being threadspewed town and needed to get back-to-back mls
  5. The way they’ve been using the Kiiruma death to attack people… could very easily be the reason behind the kiiruma death. Because, Kiiruma was essentially locktown in many people’s eyes already, plus, by killing them, they wouldn’t have to take such a strong defense of LBW from a push and could instead pocket them
  6. Continuation of 4, they’re essentially trying to mess with us/cat because they know they can’t go with both of us to F3, and Leafia is really the only slot that they can get to believe them
    So
    Optimal play would be for them to get one of us/cat killed and then kill bird, and then utilize the lbw slot to ml the other of us/cat
    That would essentially be the only way to win in this scenario for them

a continuation of 5 from today
they had a post where they seemed like “why would ANYONE other than kiiruma be the nightkill” and a sizeable part of me is going “he saw that as the only way for him to win so the reason he can only see that is because the kiiruma kill was the only logical kill for him as scum”

-a
@Chloe @katze @cat

2 Likes
#5274

i belive you belive this

you are wrong. Dont throw on f3, leafia town. wolf is among you and cat, deal with it

-Dum

#5275

If you’re going to explain this to me, you need to get around what I’d call the largest junction
Why did cat vote tsp over me yesterday and kill kiiruma when I have explained exactly how they’d be able to win by doing neither of those things

-a

#5276

This day is going to be hardest for me I think. I want to trust Eevee here with every cell of my body, but FPSers is making a lot of sense as to why cat is probably a villager…

I am doing this for now though until I’ve had more time to wake up and think things through.

/unvote @Host_Account_2

I’d rather win today than have to go into lylo after all, so.I want to make sure that I make the right decision here. What makes it harder is that I can sort of follow Eevee’s reasoning and I do think it makes at least some sense, but FPSers has some very good points here too and I lowkey don’t think scum/FPSers would be treating cat’s slot this way. Although the possibility does exist that FPSers is trying to pocket cat, but it’s more of a tinfoil at this point. :sleepingleafeon:

#5277

Now to head back to RL. :sleepingleafeon:

#5278

i still maintain i was towny as fuck smh but i guess this can be settled later

but tldr good soup good post
i’m not signing my shit that’s only for degenerates

#5279

r u calling me a degenerate

-a

#5280

Wrong?

Also wrong?

I believe it’s also wrong?
Like Dum had whole follow up on that about which slots are reacting to it in different way.

As in how TSP, Cats, You and Bees aproached the conflict.
Not just conflict itself.

Wait. That’s the conflict of 2wolves and LBW. I only now connected this two facts. Omfg.

Well, and for this one question is - is it really scummy?
Expressing reads when you have reads, instead of forcing yourself to make them?

I really don’t think anyone can pressure me into making any reads just for sake of making reads.
That’s really missing the point. And if you think I should just slap random “town” and “Scum” for any small post someone made… well, that’s how you play.
Don’t force others to make reads they do not believe in.

#5281

this was directed at my worse half but sure you too (:

anyways i go work check in when i can