Netrunner Mafia - Game Over: Mala Tempora

[Magnus]

@Vulgard

Ngl, if Guava and Flygon are wolves then I am terrible at this game.

Could you explain the townread on Guava? I must’ve missed the reasoning for that.

[Magnus]

@NinjaPenguin

@NotArctic I guess I’m just kinda confused about how Arctic operates. Like does he normally hardpush people or is the no hard pushes have EoD preferences (see Eliza push) his M.O.? Does he play so explictly to be in a threadstate that likes him more even as town (see Flygon)? Because parts of how Arctic’s play makes me think this is fine and in character and other parts make me think it’s anything but. I’d want to TR the transparent parts of him but then there are the inconsistencies that push me towards feeling scumread
I guess on net I’m at light scum but it’s just so dependent on the person and I don’t get the person lol

I’ve only had one experience with w!Arctic, and in that game he hardpushed me (but it turned out my leans were all correct so it was an important push), so I’m not the best judge of character on this front.

[Squirrel2412]

how long ago was this game?

[Magnus]

November.

[Squirrel2412]

do you have a link?

[Magnus]

Bland & Flavorless Mountainous 15er - Mafia Winnered

Bland & Flavorless Mountainous 15er Hosted by @Italy & @lol Rules: Follow the site and forum game rules. They already contain everything you need to know, so make sure to read them. The host reserves the right to add or remove (mostly add) rules as they see fit throughout the game. Which they probably (definitely) won’t, but you never know. Players may only post 150 times each day. This restriction will be lifted 1 hour before the end of each day. Roles: Town x12 Mafia x3 Example Rolec…

[guavagudetama]

@Kanave @Ashlyn @Wazza
Anyone is free to answer this but I’m targeting these three cuz I don’t think they’re even hitting today’s postmin?

What are y’all’s reads on Arctic and Vulgard? (For Wazza you can just talk about Vulgard if you want, I saw your read on Arctic)

[Flygon]

@guavagudetama

they know better than us which feels very manipulative and wolfy

I don’t know better then y’all per say.

But I do have 7 Years Mafia experience and been in this game long enough to know how things work.

I get a better understanding of where the wolves are and always evaluate the game state.

[Flygon]

@Flygon

But I do have 7 Years Mafia experience and been in this game long enough to know how things work.

Despite my experience however, in my over 200 games, I haven’t lead an execution fully once.

Ok I mean maybe like 3 times given the players but barley ever do.
Although actually this might not even be true cause it’s like there was times in the past where I lead stuff as a wolf which for some reason people follow.
Even that though was still a rare occasion.

I’ve always struggle at convincing others or even communicating properly.

Flygon

[guavagudetama]

@Flygon

I don’t know better then y’all per say.

But I do have 7 Years Mafia experience and been in this game long enough to know how things work.

So like not to feed your ego but in a way you should know better than me?? If you have so much experience?? Cuz this my… fourth FM game iirc. Like I have a lot of experience with the game genre but FM is a whole ‘nother plane y’know?

But what I was getting at with that comment wasn’t about experience with the game, I mean you try to direct us in a way that feels as if you have information we don’t. And when there hasn’t been a night phase yet (talkin’ day 1), that’s not a town investigator, that’s just a wolf.

[guavagudetama]

@Flygon

I’ve always struggle at convincing others or even communicating properly.

Fuuuuuuuck this is giving me huge vibes of another player ik and he always says this type of shit when he’s town

Flygon sr was like my one character trait this game I can’t lose this /j

I’m gonna reevalute because your more recent posts have felt townie as much as I hated your day 1

VOTE: UNVOTE

[guavagudetama]

Wait how do I unvote again

[guavagudetama]

VOTE: guavagudetama

I’m gonna leave my vote there until someone shows me how to unvote
I’m gonna look into Squirrel because Wazza has a vote on him and I don’t quite understand it

[Magnus]

[unvote] [/unvote], or click the reverse icon next to the hammer in the posting ui.

[guavagudetama]

@Magnus

or click the reverse icon next to the hammer in the posting ui.

UNVOTE
Thank you

[guavagudetama]

@Squirrel2412

sup nerds

His entrance was a reply to Vulgard which feels weird to me. I don’t know why that feels weird but it does. Like his entrance doesn’t have any correlation I see to Vulgard’s post. This is probably nothing and I’m looking too much into it but it feels wrong.

@Squirrel2412

I’ve noticed I slank if I feel lost reads-wise

Looks at Squirrel not hitting postmin today

[quote=“Squirrel2412, post:65, topic:3965, full:true”]

[quote=“Kanave, post:55, topic:3965”]

@Caspore

huh interesting, is that to give the accused time to put up a defense?
[/quote]

It can be;

@Arctic

@Caspore

huh interesting, is that to give the accused time to put up a defense?
[/quote]

it can be, yeah.

I like this

imo it probably indicates arctic isn’t very self-conscious about his posts, otherwise he wouldn’t have used the same wording kanave did

This was hell and it meant nothing and I give slight scum points to anyone who mentioned it just because it didn’t mean anything I will never get over this it was THREE WORDS-

@Kanave

Alternatively Arctic KNOWS im a townie and so copied my wording because its the wording a townie would use there
Checkmate Arctic

THST INCLUDES YOU!

@Squirrel2412

wait

I’m just bad at reading

I was going
quote
commentary

not
commentary
quote

was that yes referring to the caspore vote or the dum vote?

This is just a message so I can talk about the Squirrel/Eliza/Kanave interaction
Knowing Eliza is town I don’t know if he actually comes out of this looking that great until I realise that he literally quoted the wrong commentary to Eliza’s quote. Like mans had no clue what was going on.

@Squirrel2412

okay but what if I was making up my own read on you

Me revealing that I didn’t actually agree with Caspore and I just wanted Flygon to get executed

@Squirrel2412

so why is your ‘whole world view wrong’ then?
you kinda thought he was town and then flipped town

or was this in response to something else?

Mans continues to have no clue what’s going on. He does NOT know chat.

@Squirrel2412

@NinjaPenguin

Squirrel do you have any hot takes?

ehhh
I think w!kanave isn’t implausible but I’m fairly certain that slot is self-resolving so it’s not really a hot take, just a tinfoil

No because he was kinda right for this he was just scared AND THIS ISN’T BAD FAITH THIS TIME I actually think there’s a world where Kanave is still a wolf

@Squirrel2412

@Wazza

Alright

I’m here to say I’ll be here around 9pm GMT, thought the day started today not yesterday, completely lost track of time

In work atm, wifi is bad so I’ll interact later, I do have two scumreads from when I read in the night

^to me this kind of guilt about not engaging is towny
scum!wazza wouldn’t feel as pressured to engage thread considering the gamestate and would probably just enter later

I don’t like this read. It feels like there was literally nothing to read and he’s just saying something to say it. Arctic did it too and they’re both getting a for this moment

@Squirrel2412

I think there’s probably a wolf in you/vulg/guava/flygon because iirc each of you scumreads at least one of the others and I doubt that’s t v t v t v t

…what? wait, but in an earlier- didn’t you-…

@Squirrel2412

@Arctic

i expect there to be quite a lot of slanking this game

hopefully the mentor/mentee thing + postcap will help with that

He phrases it weirdly but a postcap would encourage slanking… why is there a wolf for sure in top posters again? If you thought the wolves were gonna be slanking? What changed?

Also as it stands I don’t believe we have a wolf between myself, Arctic, Vulgard and Flygon. I don’t know if Flygon’s posting changed or my judgement was clouded but I’m looking at it and I’m like… fuck that’s town isn’t it. codclamit.

Anyway this post where he thinks one of the top 4 is a wolf is bad but I didn’t think anything of it at the time cuz I was like “yep! and that wolf is Flygon!”

And… that’s it. That’s all of the posts that have anything readable.
So what did I learn?
-This guy’s confused a lot
-His reads are making me confused (but I didn’t care because they more or less aligned with mine)
-But now they kinda don’t so like what’s going on

I’d be okay with voting this I think but I also wanna look for like smthn else cuz I’m not super confident this is actually a wolf there’s just some posts that rub me the wrong way

[Magnus]

@guavagudetama

Also as it stands I don’t believe we have a wolf between myself, Arctic, Vulgard and Flygon. I don’t know if Flygon’s posting changed or my judgement was clouded but I’m looking at it and I’m like… fuck that’s town isn’t it. codclamit.

Anyway this post where he thinks one of the top 4 is a wolf is bad but I didn’t think anything of it at the time cuz I was like “yep! and that wolf is Flygon!”

If you’re curious, while I haven’t had a lot of experience with w!Flygon, I’ve had a lot of recent experience with v!Flygon and I very much feel like they’re playing like their villager self than wolf self in more ways than one.
I know they receive a lot of criticism for their playstyle, and I get why, but I personally find them enjoyable to play with.

[guavagudetama]

@Magnus

If you’re curious, while I haven’t had a lot of experience with w!Flygon, I’ve had a lot of recent experience with v!Flygon and I very much feel like they’re playing like their villager self than wolf self in more ways than one.

People were saying this but I like
I literally could not care less about meta
If you do something suspicious, even if it’s “in character” for you to do as town, I’m still going to push you for it, because you have to learn that you can’t just be suspicious as town to get away with it when you’re not town.

@Magnus

I personally find them enjoyable to play with.

I also enjoy playing with them now that they aren’t indirectly insulting me and Arctic LOL
(The reason I’ve been avoiding ISOing them, I finally got the little people in my head to stop having an echo chamber of “that was mean kill them”)

[Ashlyn]

@Magnus

Weren’t there three sudden votes on Eliza at EOD within a few seconds of each other? That’s how it looked reading back. In that case, Vulgard simply might not have had any time.

four within 90 seconds, yeah
wdym “not have had any time”?
imo its essentially a non-factor because he had most likely already seen the other votes
they werent that close in time

@Magnus

Dum/Wazza / Squirrel. Leave my name out of this.

I’ll just break this up, I’m not contributing anything of note here.

ah yes
i shall simply trust you

@guavagudetama

well that’s not the case here. Sometimes I’m just curious. But curiosity killed the cat and looking at my pfp this might not end well for me.

nya x3

@guavagudetama

I didn’t expect her to reciprocate
THAT’S WHY I BACKED OFF
SHE OBVIOUSLY WASN’T GOING TO STOP TOWNREADING ME
AND SHE DIDN’T

this confuses me (even with the knowledge that its meant to say scumreading)
were you specifically trying to play to make caspore townread you there? this isnt a loaded question im just genuinely curious on the playstyle here

@Flygon

@Ashlyn

i think flygon/squirrel/kanave could be a full team

there is quite literally nothing stopping it except the potential of flygon seeming too partnered with kanave to such a degree it might be a pocket and ofc the vig claim

I’ll look later on why you think I’m ever a wolf here as well as Kanave.
I think this is just a garbage solve tbh.

i want to hear your alternatives, other than arctic
in my eyes, even at base rand, every single player in this game has a 33% chance of being scum
if i remove kanave (i saw their post, i will quote it later),
3/8 players in the game are scum
the idea that an entire solve is entirely wrong is fallacious in itself (even with the acknowledgement that kanave was one of those slots)

@Flygon

Me and Kanave are both obvious town, the PoE yesterday was garbage.

ok
if youre town i want to hear why that is rather than just “i am town” because i genuinely am having trouble seeing why you arent scum with that eod
occam’s razor says the simplest explanation is the correct one
to assume that eod was just randomly fucking shit and no scum were interfering is just too implausible for me to accept

@Arctic

i’m in a weird position where i think most people have bad reads but at the same time this feels kind of unfair to say when i don’t really have any confident scumreads myself so i’m basically silently dvc warrioring even though i’m in the game

mrrr
hate this post

@Kanave

That being said I don’t really see any advantage in fullclaiming here? I already told yall my shot and you know that if i’m a wolf i’m like, always 1 shot here, I don’t see any benefit in outing it now. Makes the wolves more uncertain if they have to go for me.

ugh
fortunately or unfortunately this is
exactly the vibe i was looking for from a response
sorry friend

@Flygon

Idk why you guys are just continuing the losing play PoE like yesterday was.

the idea that the entire poe was losing yesterday doesnt. make. sense.
where were the wolves?? like, i get youre saying ninja and ill have to dive that when im free to do so
why eod movement if the poe is wrong? was a previous wagon correct and votes were shifted off of that?

@Flygon

Eliza wagon was a MUST.

I know I’m Town.
Eliza was Town.
Shed was Town.
I am still very confident Kanave is Town, they are also confirmed Vigilante.

Like look, it’s obvious that entire near end day I was desperately trying to look for another option so we would vote out a wolf, like it’s all there.

Looking at wagonomics on EoD is gonna get you no where Ashlyn but what is gonna get you somewhere is looking into the players who were never even touched or not that much day 1.

I GTG. I’ll be back later probably.

w h y
why why why
whywhywhywhywhywhywhywhy
what the fuck is wrong with my way of thinking here
people are just telling me im wrong but not explaining WHY

@Arctic

@Flygon

Later I’ll go over what Penguin’s strategy was and how he was lining up a Guava ML quite easily with a kill on Caspore.

Notice how even Caspore never stated a town read on Penguin if I recall correctly.

Also there are posts where Arctic made theatre with them and I believe the vote on them by Arctic today is a distancing tactic like @Vulgard made with Molly that one game.

i did actually talk about the first point in the case that i deleted. i guess that was the part that still mattered. essentially the way he was handling eliza kind of made sense to be able to set up for a push on one of you/guava today based on your treatment of eliza which is what he did, especially after his vote on eliza (but given his readslist i can’t really criticize the vote itself since it made the most sense given his reads)

you’re kind of doing the thing you do where you look at an interaction and instead of assuming it might mean you’re wrong which is more likely, you’re trying to create a narrative where the more unlikely answer is the one just to fit your worldview of me being a wolf. this isn’t exactly new, you have literally called everything i’ve done explicitly wolfy without showing examples or explaining why, it’s just blanket buzzwords and ascribing motivations. you even bring up a different player’s meta in this post without recognizing i don’t even play like that. please start evaluating things objectively

hnnng
this post feels like some sort of asmr where the guy is comfortably whispering into my ear to make me believe him
. im gonna scream

@Magnus

VOTE: NinjaPenguin.
I’m presently happier with this course of action than I am voting Arctic; Ninja seems a likelier wolf,

i really need to dive ninja
ok i will do that… after this? idk
im doing this to procrastinate on work

@Magnus

I’m not forgetting the off-wagon wolf thing brought up earlier, it just doesn’t seem to be the most pressing issue on anyone’s mind at the moment.

fm is misery. this game is misery. i am in

@guavagudetama

I don’t believe Ashlyn and Flygon are V/V. I’m open to an Ashlyn wolf world (though I’m very, very unconfident in it until I see a Flygon town flip) but I do not believe they are both villagers.

im… vaguely fine with this? the only world in which flygon is town imo is one where squirrel/arctic are partnered

@Flygon

The plan was simple.
The current general PoE at the time was obviously wrong.
Penguin took advantage of that.
He started taking the opposite side of things.
He started to back me up and back Caspore up.
Made sure to call us town and agree that the PoE was bad and then starts this push on Guava knowing that they were town pushing me. (Yes if Penguin is a wolf it spews Guava town here.) so they start defending me and they killed Guava to try and gain more credit on being right since both me and then called Caspore town, Penguin was hoping they would convince me on Guava.

… actually not terrible?
i have. like. a single Thought™ on this but i am going to keep it to myself for a little bit

@Vulgard

We need everybody’s input, reads are valuable to give. Bringing stuff up can help others follow up on it and find somebody’s true alignment. That’s the reason I’ve been giving thoughts on players even when I didn’t believe them to be accurate.

…
i
think im misreading this
i tried to ping vul to ask a question but this quite literally shut my brain off
i
dont
???
i couldnt think of anything im just so fucking confused
im just gonna
end this here

[Squirrel2412]

@Squirrel2412

@Arctic

honestly this list doesn’t really have me worried about wolves controlling the game (except for you, maybe), i’m more worried about us just killing ourselves again given i expect there to be quite a lot of slanking this game

hopefully the mentor/mentee thing + postcap will help with that

I’ve noticed I slank if I feel lost reads-wise or if I get super behind on thread, both of which should be mitigated by that

@guavagudetama

He phrases it weirdly but a postcap would encourage slanking… why is there a wolf for sure in top posters again? If you thought the wolves were gonna be slanking? What changed?

that wasn’t my point

arctic was worried that town would have a bunch of slankers and we would end up misyeeting within them
my point was that having mentors would hopefully encourage people who normally slank as town to post more

the thing about top posters was more a coincidence - the main reason I thought there was a wolf there is that each of you had at least one scumread among the other 3 (except arctic, I think?) and that it was really unlikely that all 4 of you are that bad at reading each other

you just happened to be the top 4 posters which made describing you as a group really easy