i mean, if you look at it from my perspective, the three main people you’ve been pushing have all been town - and the way you’ve gone about treating my slot hasn’t exactly been the sort of good-faith well-intentioned villager mistakenly scumreading someone vibe, so with that in mind it’s hard for me to say you’re showing an improvement in this game.
my objective is not to make you feel bad about your play. with that said, given the flips, if you are a town this post is a reality check that you needed to hear. it’s time you take a step back and reconsider rather than going ahead with the third person you’ve been pushing fueled by the assumption that you couldn’t have been wrong on all your pushes, so i must be a wolf, because well… you have been wrong on all your pushes.
at least temporarily i’d like you to think about who you think is likely to be a wolf where you’re wrong on me.
this argument feels bad faith but i don’t really know the context
i think it’s pretty self-explanatory why someone would want someone else to explain a scumread on themselves, even if it’s not to read that player’s alignment, they can at least use this explanation to then explain why it’s wrong
why
before iso-ing that is, what gave you this impression?
“All my pushes”.
I’ve pushed for mainly 2 players. You and Eliza.
Shending a little bit that it wasn’t a big push I just knew the current way you and others had the general PoE wasn’t gonna give us a red flip and I was right on that so I guess in a sense we are both wrong
As I’ve stated and as I’ve told Guava or requested them to do is try and evaluate players, mainly you and Vulgard cause as shown the general PoE yeah had wasn’t hitting a wolf, which I already figured as much when the PoE first came about.
I played it the best I could.
I don’t know who the wolves are I can only make assumptions and beliefs.
But I knew it was only gonna end in a town flip if I stood around and did nothing.
You all gave me 0 choice. I wanted Shending, but I wasn’t getting followed. You were the other option, and I didn’t want to vote you, so it had to be Eliza. And no, the Squirrel wagon wasn’t going to take off, Arctic and Ashlyn voting Eliza basically sealed the deal anyway.
Squirrel is a complete shrugslot to me rn. Could be mafia and I wouldn’t be surprised. I didn’t vote him over Eliza yesterday because Eliza felt more like a coinflip and Squirrel I actually liked a part of day 1. With the flips being what they are, I think Squirrel is a more likely wolf by process of elimination (I have you and guava as lock town still).
The main person I want to push here is Arctic. I think his treatment of Flygon close to EoD was indicative of him actively refusing to read Flygon town and trying to push him over despite obvious signs that Flygon was a villager. He also weirdly interacted with Shending in a way that didn’t feel like he actually cared about Shending’s reponses, which made me extremely suspicious because I thought Shending was a wolf and Arctic’s lack of inquisitiveness there made me think they were W/W and my earlier read was wrong (clearly it wasn’t, but I digress). His vote on Eliza sealing the deal was also on the wolfy side fmpov because I feel like he should’ve been more exploratory there than he ended up being (talking to Shending but not doing anything with it, keeping the Flygon wagon intact for much longer than he should have imo).
I be like “mmmm I’m so bad at making town reads” and then I open Arctic’s ISO
I like this post because it’s Squirrel going “Arctic looks town for this methinks” and then Arctic is like “okay but what if I did it on purpose and I’m not town” which ironically makes him look town because I don’t think he would have commented on that if he was wolf
This doesn’t necessarily look townie for Arctic but it definitely doesn’t look great for Vulgard imo? He’s basically saying “hmm I think it’s Arctic but let’s ignore it”
…huh?
Arctic true posting here this reply to NP feels kinda towny because NP is trying to say that Eliza was town for saying reaction test instead of joke (I think???) and Arctic calling out that that makes no sense looks good for him
My main problem with Arctic’s ISO up to this point, though, is that they made a read on Vulgard and then nothing else. Like, I suppose the same could have been said for me with Eliza, but I was basically only talking about Eliza and Arctic wasn’t tunneling anyone in particular.
And then his next post is reads. Let’s GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
This is sort of the same reason I didn’t really like NP’s posting, but that changes later like when they pushed me! so it’s fine. (I actually have no clue what alignment NP is I’m so lost)
Dum was actually reading as town for me at this point but despite disagreeing with this I understand Arctic’s points and it shows he’s actually thinking about the game
I wish I could put wolf points on NP for just being wrong. Like that’s just incorrect and they’re doubling down
well that went well for her
LITERALLY my reasoning when people were like “HMMM KANAVE AND ARCTIC BOTH SAID “IT CAN BE” TO CASPOR’E QUESTION… SUUS??” like not they just said three words y’all
I actually think Flygon turning their back on me made sense cuz iirc I started sussing them first. If I was in Flygon’s shoes I woulda done the same thing LOL.
Considering they’re always talking about “kEePiNg YoUr PoE oPeN” I don’t believe this to be true.
I will tactfully not comment on how bad this makes Flygon look, and instead say that Arctic looks really good here for responding in a rational manner after Flygon basically turned into a supervillain. What happened to Mx. ^-^ anyway?
factual + same logic Caspore had towards me who flipped town
legend has it she’s still analyzing
I do wish they expanded on their read on Kanave more, but they didn’t expand on any town read so I’m not too hung up over it?
Oh they did
wait this is so gross what
how did I not see this before ummmmmmmm
and it was to Kanave??? okay maybe I need to reevaluate my reads from EARLIER TODAY
GORTA LITE LMAOOO
I don’t understand either of the sides of this argument. I don’t like the Arctic self meta here but I didn’t read the game so. Also Flygon looks bad here but what’s fuckin new.
absolutely hate this vote given how much they pushed against Flygon day 1. Like, now you’re voting with them? sure.
Overall Arctic looks pretty townie with a few moments that raise my eyebrow
Gonna read what I missed between saying I’d ISO Arctic and now, maybe respond, and then move onto Vulgard
I really don’t understand why you’re struggling so hard to call him town. I think he’s been obvious town since his blowup late into day 1 and yet you’re being extremely hesitant to clear him. I also backread EoD and I get what you mean by having an epiphany but I think you had that way too late, I think you should’ve recognized this earlier and that you should’ve called for votes off Flygon earlier. It felt like you were trying to keep that on the table for as long as possible, especially considering the fact he could’ve been yeeted until the very last moments of that EoD.
I think he’s blatantly town. Did he snow everyone else here recently or something? I thought his posting starting from when he got mad on day 1 was transparently town salt.
My vote was the last vote of six, I’d argue the deed was already done at that point. Plus, like I said, there were no good alternatives except maybe Squirrel, who I didn’t really have a read on.
It doesn’t matter who was on that wagon, I think he’s not been recognizing Flygon as town on purpose.
Can you define “keeping the wagon intact”? That must be a phrase I don’t know because if it doesn’t literally mean being on the wagon to keep it going it doesn’t mean what it directly translates to
In general, his play at EoD was him playing extremely slow and not really wanting anyone to go over it seemed. His questioning of Shending went nowhere, the Flygon wagon lived for a long time even though I think he should’ve recognized Flygon as town earlier (yes I am that convinced Flygon is town), there was not much else going on from his side and he ultimately settled on the shrugyeet of Eliza. I was trying to hear her out but I ultimately had nowhere else to go at that point.
Why not?
I want to know what your problem is.
He allowed it to continue to exist while Flygon was obvtowning fmpov, and he ‘changed his mind’ on Flygon extremely slowly.
Like, at that point my vote on Shending was completely useless because the wagon was not happening. The other candidates were Flygon, whom I townread and wanted to protect from dying, and Squirrel, who I had no read on. Eliza was a coinflip and therefore I was the most inclined to vote for her. Me voting for her would also push her further away from the other wagons, one of which I had a stake in protecting.
In hindsight, I should’ve tried to help make the Squirrel wagon happen, but I thought it was Shending that was a wolf and I had no read on Squirrel, so I couldn’t vote that over coinflip Eliza. I’m okay with going Squirrel today.
understandable. i didn’t have a good grasp on the game leading up to eod but i also didn’t do much to remedy this, so that’s on me. the eod felt wrong but i didn’t really know what felt right and it was too late for me to do something about that, but i want to try to get a better grasp on the game today as well.
i think what you’re not considering is that, from my point of view, flygon has been incorrectly pushing me for a myriad of bad (faith) reasons, and regardless of the town tells he was dropping in the process this is always going to result in some kind of damper on the amount i can townread him, naturally due to bias. i’ve come around on it more today, but if you look at his posts about me, acting like i should 100% know he is town is kind of bizarre. i’m kind of wondering if it’s coming from a wolf you because it’s that… bizarre. i don’t think flygon was as obvious as you are making them out to be, even without my bias, and the argument you’re using against me surmounting to “arctic didn’t realize a villager was town soon enough” feels really ??? and may be born from TMI.
as for my posts to shending, i don’t really know what you are specifically referring to. could you bring these up? the only thing i remember was asking shending how active he would be able tomorrow, because i didn’t feel like i had a great grasp on the wagons and was trying to take a “least bad” approach - as you can see in my last post where i discuss whether i want to go eliza or shending.
i don’t know what kind of exploration you wanted me to do there. i guess i can kind of see this argument? i didn’t really think about CFD’ing anyone, but that’s because i didn’t think the wagons felt bad enough to go somewhere else entirely (even though they didn’t feel great - but i can’t really act on this when i have almost no confident reads).
i mean you’re not wrong lol. it’s hard for me to actively want to keep someone alive who’s tunneling me for bad reasons and calling for a CFD on me. it’s a weakness i have as a player i guess, and while i’m not entirely willing to policy people over things like this, if it happens without my intervention as a bystander, i’m not going to work my ass off to stop it.
i don’t think guava is a wolf… that’s why the world where he is a wolf was labelled as the one where i’m wrong on everything.
My problem is you don’t like where Arctic placed his vote, then followed suit. There isn’t an angle here that isn’t hypocritical. “He started it” is not an excuse. You can’t get mad at him for voting what you voted, that’s not fair.
EoD was a fucking shitshow and I’m
massively disappointed in myself for showing up late im so sorry
im going to do my best to salvage… something out of this
on the eliza wagon, i voted a minute and a half before day ended and all of the other three votes followed after that
what am i looking at here
there’s massive movement in the last five minutes especially, the entire eliza wagon literally forming into existence during that time
of the six people on there, ninjapenguin, flygon, me, arctic, kanave, and vulgard, im going to start off with removing myself from the list NP
Flygon
Arc
Kanave
Vulgard
Based on vote power, I’m going to remove NP and Vulgard. NP started a flash wagon, yes, but on their own it didn’t do much. Rather than being scum-originated, it was more likely to be scum-perpetuated based on how fast it grew. Vulgard’s vote, additionally, was essentially non-material; there were five seconds left in the day, and Eliza was already sunk. This doesn’t mean they can’t be scum, it just means I doubt there’s any relevance in it here
so Flygon
Arc
Kanave
I’m going to go out on a limb and say that there aren’t three wolves in guava, magnus, dum/wazza, and squirrel, which means im assuming that there’s at least one wolf in this trio of 3
beyond this, there has to be scum motivation. scum has to have someone they want to save in order to move votes this drastically. looking at the previous top wagons, there were: Kanave, Flygon, and Squirrel. So, I’m going to say at least one of these is scum.
… im gonna be fucking honest, every single fucking bone in my body is telling me kanave is scum. every single one. their tone yesterday was abysmal. 15 minutes before EoD they had three townies on them, two of which are now dead.
despite this
there were two nightkills last night
and i really, really want to believe that there wouldnt be extra wolf kp in the setup
but a 1-shot kp is not impossible
so @kanave
if you want me to not hardtunnel you into the fucking ground today, im going to want a full roleclaim and full accountability for any potential future shots ASAP
… im going to hope and pray that’s enough.
i honestly do just think its kanave but im going to continue with the thought experiment
if its NOT kanave: Flygon
Arctic
are our last two
Arctic’s vote… pretty much sunk Eliza. Kanave’s vote made the elim absolute, but it’s worth noting that Arc had massive vote power by making Eliza the top wagon. However, Arc being scum by himself wouldn’t make sense in this scenario, because he had no motivation to shake the wagons up at EoD. To be scum, he would need to be partnered with one or more of the other top-wagons: Kanave, Squirrel, and Flygon. I don’t want to go here today… but I know I’m a bit biased. I really, really hope you’re town, arc, but I can’t just trust it at face value, and I’m sorry
which leaves… Flygon
im
going to look a little bit more closely here gods why do they have 114 posts
because not only was Flygon on the Eliza wagon, they were also a former top wagon
them being saved would make the massive wagon shifts make sense
i am going to ignore… pretty much everything before EoD, mostly because their stilted tone makes it all-but impossible for me to read them until they start dropping their act
important things to note:
Flygon actually does have precedent for voting Eliza.
Major focus on Kanave here
i am
going to go out on a limb and say flygon/arctic isnt a likely team unless this was… random hardbussing and hard-distancing??? i
i dont know
i really want to believe that not even… flygon… would play like this in a W/W situation
i get in thread and flygon… immediately latches onto me? sidenote: top tier keysmash nice job tired ash
and there’s the sudden switch off of arctic to potentially eliza
perhaps because people arent following
but it doesnt make sense for how strongly hes been advocating to randomly switch back to eliza
beyond this i think that flygon’s play matches up with trying to get a scum saved
at the time he switches from ‘just arctic’ to ‘arctic or eliza’, he has 3 votes, kanave has two votes, and shending, squirrel, guava, and arctic all have one vote (flygon is the one vote on arctic)
he convinced others to join the wagon and was heavily advocating for moving around votes at eod
so
yeah
flygon has scum equity
beyond this, i dont think every single wolf was on eliza’s wagon at the end just cause? that wouldnt make sense just in general??
this leaves us with at least one wolf within: Guava
Magnus
Dum/Wazza
Squirrel
for obvious reasons, i am going to kinda wait for stuff from Wazza before pointing a pitchfork at em
despite this
dum wasn’t… particularly scummy? they were mostly absent but their annoyance at the postcap’s existence felt genuine, and they didnt push any agenda as far as i can see so im vaguely inclined to leave them be for now
so Guava
Magnus
Squirrel
Guava did not participate in the vote-shuffling at all. They started on Flygon and ended on Flygon.
In the same vein, Magnus did not participate in the vote-shuffling at all. They started on Squirrel, and ended on Squirrel. This, obviously, doesn’t align with the idea that scum were making EoD all fucky-wucky.
so
im
gonna go ahead and default to assuming GTH, Squirrel would be the off-wagon scum in this existence
Squirrel wasn’t around for EoD, but they were at one point a wagon, and when they crept up in votes, suddenly the eliza flashwagon formed
so
yeah
conclusions
I want Kanave to be fully transparent about… everything, really. Their role, their reads, their votes. If, if they do that and I’m satisfied with it and they agree to shoot who the towncore tells them to shoot (assuming multi-shot), I will leave them alone for the day.
beyond that
if kanave does give satisfying answers, i want wagons of Flygon/Squirrel. I’m all-but-certain that there’s at least one scum in here, if not two for two
I wanted to know why you felt like it might be possible. As in, that you’re wrong on everything. What are your reads rn, really?
Re: Shending
Posts about Shending
You were cutting Shending a lot of slack and it looked like you were taking every opportunity not to vote him, which is what made me think this was W/W. Shending dying obviously takes that off the table, but this doesn’t look like you have any urgency in solving him. Some of the questions you ask him don’t even make sense to ask if you don’t expect both of you to be alive the next day and for him to answer them at that point. Like: “shending if you’re town, these wagons were probably v/v. does knowing this make anything more obvious?” shouldn’t be a question you ask when solving a slot with urgency, and there should’ve been urgency when it was EOD…
The overall picture is of you grinding your wheels and not doing anything during that mess of an EoD. It’s not like I was playing it any better (hello guava), I was trying to push a villager, but I had… thoughts and beliefs? You basically shrugkilled Eliza, and your questioning of Shending didn’t amount to much, because the way you carried it out was obviously not going to help resolve his slot at EOD1. So, fmpov, it doesn’t look like you even intended to do anything there. Even your slow taking away of the Flygon wolfread was so slow that it almost didn’t even save him from dying.
I had the vote on Eliza pre-typed, saw Arctic and Ashlyn’s votes, and went “yeah, okay, that’s it.” If people suddenly voted Shending, I would’ve kept mine on Shending by not voting.
I’m obviously going to evaluate Arctic’s vote in hindsight, it’s not like in those 5 seconds I could’ve realized “hmm he really just didn’t do anything and then voted for a shrugkill.” Especially since Eliza could’ve still been mafia at that point. The mere act of voting Eliza doesn’t make someone a wolf, there were 6 votes on her in the end, the problem I have is with the overall picture of Arctic’s EoD where it looked like he was actively trying not to rock the boat because things were going well for wolves.
this reply to NP feels kinda towny because NP is trying to say that Eliza was town for saying reaction test instead of joke (I think???) and Arctic calling out that that makes no sense looks good for him