Re: Flygon, I suppose it’s possible that I am being extremely dumb again, but his outburst and the spiral into insanity that followed read as super towny to me. I feel like half of that frustration shouldn’t be there if he’s mafia.
Please explain why he still is, if you think that he is. I do not want to throw by harddefending a wolf. I just feel like he shouldn’t have even been a wagon this close to EOD yesterday from where I’m standing and what his posts looked like at the time. He is extremely isolated in the thread. Do you think he’s trying to push whatever/wherever to survive or something? Did he play like that as a wolf?
The reason I’m taking so much issue with Arctic specifically not seeing it is that he has a ton of experience with Flygon. Which is also why I’m asking if he snowed everyone recently or something, because I really don’t understand the extent of uncertainty he has about Flygon. I have not seen someone be this hesitant to townread a player I think has been getting vastly more towny over time, and coupled with the other things I outlined, again, it looks to me like he was mafia trying not to rock the boat.
Like.
I don’t get why, that’s the thing. It’s like in Arctic’s eyes, Flygon’s posts never developed since the starting point. The starting point wasn’t very good, I had no read there for a while. But I do think he substantially improved. But Arctic’s read didn’t seem to change and he was still actively refusing to do anything.
genuinely no fucking clue
all bets are off at that point because vote fuckery and solo’s can absolutely fuck with everything when its possible that that might just be it
if we get to the point where flygon/squirrel/kanave/arctic gets two scum, im starting from scratch again and relying on any spew and regular reading
this means un-deadzoning you, magnus, vulgard, and ninja
and no matter what im going to have to put a lot of effort into reading wazza
i think flygon/squirrel/kanave could be a full team
there is quite literally nothing stopping it except the potential of flygon seeming too partnered with kanave to such a degree it might be a pocket and ofc the vig claim
It’s probably worth noting that I literally just caught ladd and shot him with a desperado partly because he incessantly pushed Ender, who I thought was towny. Villagers did that as well, I even ended a day phase with my vote on Ender, but as soon as I realized that there was a good chance of Ender being kept on the table by wolves, it was that much easier to find some.
This is somewhat analogical. It’s somewhat muddied by Arctic apparently changing his mind, but he also kinda still wanted Flygon to die, but also not really?
Fwiw NP’s push on guava similarly baffles me because I think guava’s d1 was super towny all things considered. A part of me is considering listening to some of these pushes, but I really do think they’re bad.
I’m done talking about Arctic for a while, how about Squirrel. Apart from them being more likely scum by PoE now and me having a weak townping on him day 1 I’ve got nothing. Which is why I think there’s a decent chance he’s mafia.
Correct and that’s why I don’t just want to talk about Arctic and Flygon all day, I gave my case and I’ll go back to it at EoD if I still think that’s where we should go.
I lightly brought this up in my Arctic ISO
I would much rather a Flygon kill because of it if I was picking between those two alone
Though Squirrel is also a tempting vote for contributing… literally nothing after the Eliza/Squirrel/Kana moment?
Rn I definitely think Flygon is town and Arctic played in a very wolfy way during that EoD as well as in overall treatment of Flygon. I would’ve said the same about his treatment of Shending if Shending were alive, and Shending flipping town weakens my treatment argument a bit, but still.
why
i could unironically see the last 3 names being a scumteam
i don’t think i agree with this on principle. i think kanave and flygon are both town - this means mostly villagers were being wagoned and people who can be proven to actually care about what was going on at eod are more likely to be town
…lol this is towny
but can we like, not have them full claim
i think wolves just don’t get kp in a low powered 13’er without town having kp… and that’s basically enough for me.
i think your post is kinda making too many assumptions on what wolves were doing without any real proof so it’s hard for me to act on anything in this yet, but i do think if flygon is a wolf then it may hold some merit
dunno. initially thought because of the caspore kill maybe? they were pushing guava after all. not acting on this because it was probably a PR read kill since not many people would kill newbtown just because they are scared of their social pressure since they had little influence
well. i didn’t really feel like he was scum. especially after your point on him was proven wrong when he said that he’s often incorrectly scumread for only making townreads. i asked him about his perspective on the wagons because a lot of the time villagers can make their alignment obvious from how they solve the game knowing that they are town / the wagons were town. may have got something out of it that would have made me confident enough to go out of my way and save him.
did you not read my big response to you?.. i explained why i was happy to let him die lol. i’m not proud about it if he’s town, but i’ll reiterate that it’s hard for me to actively go out of my way to save someone who’s been pushing me for bad faith reasons and calling for a CFD on me. i wasn’t encouraging votes on him nor voting him - that would be policy, and i’m against that, but at the same time i was perfectly happy to let him die with the way he was playing. you can call this wolfy if you want, but just recognize that me not trying to save him was not because i thought he was a wolf.
literally nothing. i thought he was rand. i thought kiling eliza, who was also more or less rand, would yield more information.
Like I said a couple messages I think Squirrel literally not contributing anything but still posting feels… bad. Not necessarily wolf bad just it doesn’t feel great to see because he’s getting sussed based on almost no information.
@Ashlyn Do you think Vulgard/Flygon is plausible?
When Vulgard talks to me about Arctic it feels townie but every time he brings up Flygon my brain is screaming every word it can think of to signify the evil team in a social deduction game
I think town messed up bigtime yesterday. I don’t think we wagoned a wolf unless the wolf was exactly Squirrel, and he only got 2 votes, one of which was super late into EoD and not followed at all.
Based on my experience with Flygon, the way he has played more recently is a way in which he plays as town, not as mafia.
I asked for recent experiences with wolf!Flygon that are making you think otherwise. Or does the wolfread not factor in personal experience at all and is more of an objective thing?
because then there’s no real logic behind… all of the bullshit of eod?
.
.
.
like, i know we’re on fol but??? just??? god i really fucking hope we didnt all just decide to fucking hop on a dead horse of our own volition
on
on wh
on what principle tho
i really honestly think its necessary
every single logical thing i can think of is telling me that kanave is scum
i need a good
like
a very good reason
to not vote them here
thats
possible
if it exists it could come with downsides, such as a 1-shot and no other mafia abilities able to be used that night or something idk im not a game balancer
i. dont really know?
its just really hard to fathom being incorrect here
this still confuses me
i dont… i dont get why or how youre so confident on these being town and its making me incredibly fucking concerned, arc
I feel like we should consolidate a bit because screaming our reads at each other isn’t going to help, there have been like 4 pet tunnels this game and 2 of them are from me. I’m part of the problem.
@NinjaPenguin Please elaborate on your current reads, you only seem to have one right now and it’s on someone I townread. I’ll need convincing. @guavagudetama Similar thing here, I want you to elaborate on why you think Flygon is a wolf. @Ashlyn What scum was Flygon supposedly saving yesterday? I guess it works with your “Kanave 1-shot wolf vig” theory, but if you take the claim at face value, do you have any other reason to wolfread him?
I honestly never defended the player behind Flygon before as much as I’m doing it here, but I really feel like he’s been towny for his standards and somehow it’s not being recognized, and gamestate is warping around pushes on him which I think are wrong… I don’t even think this is a Lemonfairy situation where I just lock the read in and don’t re-evaluate for a while like a fool, this is a read I developed over time as he had a constant upward trajectory in towniness imo.
I don’t want to be too obstinate here, so I’ll be open to discussing this. There is time.
