I literally have no clue who Flygon is, I’m trying to play objectively but I’m not going to act as if emotions have never influenced my votes considering my vote is currently on myself because I “felt stupid”
So I’m trying not to factor in personal experience but I can’t control my subconscious that’s like the subconscious’s whole thing it’s subconscious
I’m not asking you not to listen to your gut, that’s not what I was trying to say at all. I just need concrete reasons for Flygon being mafia right now, because I really don’t think he is and that’s influencing my worldview a decent amount. I want to understand the wolfreads.
You could say I’m listening to my own gut by defending Flygon. A lot of what I’m talking about with him is meta-influenced, the rest is gamestate analysis and, well, a strong gut feeling that he was breaking down because he’s town and not because he’s mafia trying to desperately trying to push the yeet around. It didn’t seem like the latter.
at the beginning they seemed like they would just latch onto anyone who seemed townie enough. I want to go back and find it now but it really felt like they were only pushing Eliza because I was and when I said that they suddenly stopped following me and jumped to someone else.
they really want everyone to trust them to the point where it seems like they’re just trying to gaslight people into thinking they’re town. Also they just really wanna garner trust in general which tbf it was EoD.
they talk as if they know better than us which feels very manipulative and wolfy
those are the main things I’ve been thinking about
… honestly not really? i actually kinda forgot vul was in the game for a sec which was certainly a 
moment
flygon/vulgard doesnt really make sense with my eod-fuckery theory because vul voted with like
less than half a minute left
i will skim iso real quick though
just quoting everything relevant here
uhhh
vul certainly has no lack of thoughts on eliza and flygon but
@Vulgard im very confused
i know you were against flygon in part because of eliza’s read on them, but now that eliza’s flipped town, does that change anything? what about my read on them? multiple times d1 you mentioned the accuracy of my early reads and the like and yet you seem to be paying them very little heed even though ive now actually shared them
I do think Kanave claiming her shot is a good idea at least. Removes ambiguity.
3 Likes
like why do you think you know better? do you know the wolves or smthn? 
/j
Flygon has an ego, though I’ve never seen them be manipulative. More “I HAVE THE GOD SOLVE.”
Do you have any examples of the first part that you can point out to me?
I should d2 you, then I’ll be 2/2 on voting out people who forgot about my existence.
they could be saving themself, squirrel, or kanave, like i said. even if not kanave, their play doesnt seem town-motivated and there are still other options available
another wolf being on the wagon with them in this case could make sense for why eod was such a clusterfuck
already wanted to d1 me
might as well try again 
sobs in now I have to ISO Flygon
brb
2 Likes
Yeah, I’m starting to notice that. I’m trying to dial the Flygon thing back despite still believing he’s town.
Eliza flipping town doesn’t really change my Flygon take, to be honest. I felt like he was treated uncharitably and this opinion only grew stronger overnight, which is why it might potentially be obnoxious now. I’m sorry.
i mean what about those names that made you choose them
on the principle that i don’t like focusing all my solving on wagonomics. not sure if it was in conversation, or in article, but ladd (i am too bringing up ladd here) mentioned how in his history playing the game, there’s been pretty much every combination of funky wagons and wagon formations - and i think given this is fol where everyone hellbusses, it’s especially pertinent. i think, before we know the alignments of the people who were actually being wagoned, basing the foundation of your reads on wagonomics is not going to end well. i think it’s a fine supplement, but i would only rely on it as a foundation when considering some things which are just Obvious, like player making the deciding vote on a wolf PR with w/v wagons probably making them just town - but we don’t have this information yet.
i made a post yesterday where i talk about how your tonereading of them was probably not valid because they made awkward jokes and had weird self-awareness in pathological invitational, albeit not as much here - but the point being that it shouldn’t be used as a way to read them.
well, “these wagons” was referring to shending and kanave - kanave claimed vig, i was treating it as self-resolving and i read them as nulltown before then anyway. i asked shending about it because like i said, i think villagers in that situation can say things which will make their alignment obvious. being a poe’d/wagoned villager gives you one of the best perspectives to solve the game because you have a more potent piece of information than everyone else.
I’m asking about the first part specifically because it’s not something I’m accustomed to him doing.
mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
we really arent going to get anywhere on this are we
Didn’t Squirrel become a real wagon extremely late?
didn’t really like caspore’s posts after backreading, but that’s a moot point now
caspore case
imo pushing people who are generally townread helps wolves because it widens the poe pool and prevents town from establishing towncore
not that guava’s towncore yet but regardless I don’t think pushing guava should be clearing in itself
the part about thinking about openly publicly challenging guava instead of killing her also feels a little too self-aware imo
it’s like saying ‘well, I wouldn’t do X as a wolf, so I’m town’
which, to be clear, could still be an argument that comes from town; I just don’t think it’s a valid argument and I also think it’s self aware in a way that seems wolfy
I also disliked caspore’s eod (tho mine was nonexistent so 
)
self deprecation aside, I found it weird that caspore was in thread for eod but didn’t post anything related to her own vote (which had been made several hundred posts before eod and never changed) - all her posts < 1 hr til eod were talking to/dunking on flygon (plus one post giving the vc)
granted, I don’t think it’s impossible for new town to play this passively at eod (I’ve certainly played with some who were) but I’m still not a fan*
*of that slot - as a person I’m sure caspore is great
I liked vulgard’s recent posts re:arctic
in the last game I played against scum vulgard he felt very… wishy-washy, ig?
he would post long reads/quote blocks bouncing back and forth between opinions, which was more about trying to blend in instead of pushing (deepwolf vs powerwolf ig)
barring a huge change in playstyle I don’t think he would make this arctic push
granted, this game was over a year ago so his meta might’ve shifted but I’m gonna go with this unless told otherwise
@guavagudetama talk to me about your d1 world with shending
I couldn’t find anywhere where you actually talked about him that much
I mean, I’m now actively trying to entertain the possibility I’m wrong on Flygon. What are you expecting from me here?
1 Like
town reading me
asks her a question
votes her in the same post because I did
I vote Flygon
They acknowledge I think they’re a wolf
they post two more times and then
vineboom Magnus townread and removes my townread
which I talked about here yesterday