Stratagem-27 FM - GAME OVER - MAFIA VICTORY

[Garfooled]

Which might seem dumb but I’m going with it

[May]

I’m honoured. Please kill me in real life anyway. They can find a sub for my slot.

[Garfooled]

That’s tempting
We would get the one piece guy

[sulit]

@Magnus

Don’t you feel like Garfooled hasn’t really tried reading into too many slots, though?
Would you say that’s more of a villagery behavior, or does it indicate a closed mindset that’s indicative of Maf?
(You are being timed on your answers.)

I guess I didn’t really notice that too much while reading their iso? They come off to me as a player with the play style of posting short and sweet little posts, is this typical of them?

@Magnus

I had the idea that Garfooled was TMI’ing Wiz as Town, and didn’t want to appear to eager to jump on that wagon because Wiz made himself claimviggable. Would you say that’s a bad take?

I disagree tbh, I feel like their reasoning was fairly specific ina towny way, I don’t think a wolf would follow the same train of thought like Garf did if that makes sense. It’s not a bad take, but the way Garf handles the slot doesn’t feel like a wolf with TMI, as I don’t think a wolf would come up with that kind of reasoning if that makes sense.

[sulit]

@May

Your read on me hailstoned a bit yesterday - you found me scummy, placed me in the middle of your read list yesterday, then voted me. Today, you went back and forth on my slot, before placing me in your bottom tier and then, again, voting me. Have you been indecisive about that read, or did it just change back and forth based on what I had been posting/the new information you have learned?

My read on you has remained pretty strong. I didn’t really waver on it, I just wanted to go back through your iso to reevaluate as you had posted more than when I first made my read

[Leafia]

Couldn’t sleep and don’t make me laugh Garfooled.

@sulit

In that it doesn’t feel like a mafia trying to pile onto a villager, and I also like their logic here, I can see v!Garf thinking this easily along with their own perspective of how they dealt with Litten’s post themselves

It’s exactly that.

@May

@Leafia You suspected Garfooled in the GI game, a suspicion which ended up being wrong. What in particular made/makes you think things are different this time around? Are there any particular tells you’ve noticed from him that make him differ from there?

It’s mostly how he has been acting towards my slot as well as how he has been during D1 in regards to what you noticed. I noticed it too. Then there’s how he was still trying to keep Zenon out of the towncore despite us all thinking that Kiiruma was the hider that hid behind Zenon last night, which didn’t sit well with me at all.

It felt to me like a wolf trying to keep the PoE as wide as possible, which the wolves are going to have to do this game if they want even the slimmest chance of winning.

@Garfooled

Leafia was mafosi in the GI game

No. I was town in the GI game.

@May

I will admit that this is an easy world to conceive of, as it doesn’t require me to wolfread Magnus (which is difficult, given we’ve always been T/T in the past), or Leafia (someone I suspect every game and have misexecuted a few times now), but I think it’s likely enough to be worth pursuing. I’d like to hear others’ thoughts here, because trial by town square is a good exercise to determine a case’s weaknesses.

Hmmmm, I think a scumteam of Zenon/Garfooled is plausible. Not sure how likely though.

[Magnus]

@May

@Magnus You previously said that if you are hider, you would hide behind Leafia if Garfooled were W, and me otherwise. However, you had us both as “unlikely” partners for Garfooled in your chart. Do you still think that Leafia and I are about equally unlikely to be partnered, and if so, why make your hide conditional in this way?

The difference mainly comes down to Leafia’s behaviour. If Garfooled is evil, if I’m the Hider, there can’t be much harm in testing Leafia like she wanted. She’s probably good in that world and it reduces the POE further. If Garfooled is good, that would indicate that Leafia is probably evil and there’s no chance I would want to hide behind her; you’re only maybe aligned with Leafia, and she is plausibly aligned with Sulit.

[Magnus]

@May

That’s what Magnus was implying with the line about Zenon’s “natural charisma”. Kiiruma claimed he would hide behind Zenon yesterday, the hider dies if they hide behind mafia, most of thread believes Kiiruma is the Hider, and Kiiruma is not dead. Therefore, whoever Kiiruma hid behind, if he is hider, is clear. Until he came in and clarified otherwise, we thought Zenon was confirmed town.

I thought he was just saying that.

[Magnus]

@May

@Magnus Could you tell me more about what makes you townread Garfooled? I’m a bit confused about the point you were making earlier and would appreciate having it all in one post.

My read on Garfooled has admittedly gone back and forth a couple times. I cannot say I townread Garfooled in good conscience, although I felt like he was laying on his unawareness a tad thick for a mafia team who managed to fire a claimvig. His defence isn’t terrible; his points against Leafia, such as her wanting to be checked, are sound; the fact that he seemingly missed numerous conversations happening in the thread line up with what I remember of him in Need For Speed, but I don’t think it was to this extent.

He is honest. Saying that he was voting Leafia over me earlier because he thought Leafia would be an easier execution? That’s extremely honest.

[Magnus]

@May

I’ll give the game up: I’m currently trying to assess the probability of a Garfooled/Zenon world, specifically because Garfooled didn’t take Zenon out of his PoE when the rest of us did.

First things first; May’s suddenly town for coming up with a random world that nobody else was considering instead of just going with whatever seemed most plausible.
Secondly; this random world caught me off guard. Zenon was entirely removed from my POE because I assumed they were actually confirmed. Y’know, charisma and things, and any person who said she wasn’t confirmed was just being a hater, to put it into words that only some people get.
Setting that aside…

@May

I also think that Garfooled’s consistent “vibe scumread” on Zenon, which he can’t seem to justify with any specific posts, fits the profile of a TMI read on a wolfbuddy, and the fact that he’s chosen to vote Leafia and Magnus over Zenon is not a particularly good look.

The extent of Garfooled’s suspicion on Zenon came from only today, and stemmed from Leafia and I calling her town. This would logically make sense from an order of progression if he’s going Leafia > Magnus > Zenon, if his top two scumreads were randomly townreading a third player that he felt was being more passive than usual.

[Magnus]

@May

I will admit that this is an easy world to conceive of, as it doesn’t require me to wolfread Magnus (which is difficult, given we’ve always been T/T in the past), or Leafia (someone I suspect every game and have misexecuted a few times now), but I think it’s likely enough to be worth pursuing. I’d like to hear others’ thoughts here, because trial by town square is a good exercise to determine a case’s weaknesses.

This paragraph emulates the average villager’s mindset of wanting the people they like to be town, which influences their reads and worldview. Given how May agreed to pressure Leafia yesterday, I don’t think this can be W/W with Leafia.

[Magnus]

I hardclaim Devil’s Advocate, I am safe from execution today.

@May

On the side of Zenon, her tone here doesn’t particularly read like Starcraft’s, but I also know that she’s a player who has a lot of ability to observe her past wolfgames and shake them up, and I know she had pretty low motivation in that particular game. I think her reaction to Kiiruma’s “townclear” is how a wolf would react to a bad clear - knowing it would in all likelihood be revealed to be fake, she placed her vote on the easiest-to-suspect townie, Leafia (I think it’d be Garfooled if he were town, which is more evidence for the Neon/Gar world), and tried to avoid spewing anything or looking too proud of herself.

I mean, Neon did claim to be evil in her opening and in her last post. Anyway, Neon’s reasoning to vote Leafia at the start of today was because she didn’t believe the Wiz wagon could be clean, which works from a villager’s point of view. I’m not sure what her reads are, and she hasn’t been playing like in Helluva Boss either.

[Magnus]

@May

I’m honoured. Please kill me in real life anyway. They can find a sub for my slot.

There’s no need. I could just play for both of us

[Magnus]

@sulit

I guess I didn’t really notice that too much while reading their iso? They come off to me as a player with the play style of posting short and sweet little posts, is this typical of them?

It could be characteristic of Garfooled to realtime his thoughts in bursts, looking back at Need For Speed. …Your answer has been logged.

@sulit

@Magnus

I had the idea that Garfooled was TMI’ing Wiz as Town, and didn’t want to appear to eager to jump on that wagon because Wiz made himself claimviggable. Would you say that’s a bad take?

I disagree tbh, I feel like their reasoning was fairly specific ina towny way, I don’t think a wolf would follow the same train of thought like Garf did if that makes sense. It’s not a bad take, but the way Garf handles the slot doesn’t feel like a wolf with TMI, as I don’t think a wolf would come up with that kind of reasoning if that makes sense.

This doesn’t really respond to the question about Garfooled not wanting to pile onto Wiz. I’ll have to remember this later, I guess.

[Magnus]

@Leafia

No. I was town in the GI game.

You’re Mafia every game, even when you have a green rolecard. You have scrolls on

[Zenon]

@Kiiruma

So, Zenon is someone I’ve played with before a fair bit. I’m comparing Zenon’s behaviour to some other games I’ve played with in them and it just feels so… lacksidasical and wolfy.

Also, I was someone who said “If I was hider, I would hide behind Zenon”. Yet despite attacking someone who might be being hidden behind is a good move… mafia chose not to attack Zenon. This tells me that Zenon might just be mafia and mafia thought I might die anyway if I was the hider. Thankfully, I chose someone else if I’m the hider to avoid this.

Fun fact. Lackadaisical is not a synonym for my wolf game.

Sometimes it’s a synonym for my town game though.

[Zenon]

@Leafia

Placing Zenon back in the PoE where she belongs then with her play today.

Pretty sure the hider is alive too.

The 180 that the leaf has wrt my slot when I’m put into someone else’s PoE is noted.

[Zenon]

@Magnus

Why would you not read the roles in the OP when Litten was preaching mech all day and you were active?

TBF to Gar i also did not read the roles… and I’m town

[Zenon]

@May

@Zenon When you thought you were confirmed town because of Kiiruma’s possible Hider claim, you said you were just going to vote Leafia and then meme for the rest of the day. Memeing is admirable, but has your stance changed since Kiiruma admitted he didn’t hide behind you (if he is the hider)?

[Zenon]

@Leafia

Hmmmm, I think a scumteam of Zenon/Garfooled is plausible. Not sure how likely though.