The Binding of Isaac Mad17 - Game Over (Terminal Lucidity) [Mafia Win]

[sheepsaysmeep]

I actually remember reading those posts

I think largely it was like ehh like this does reach the bar to get more time, but like, it was roughly the minimum that does that. Like In my head my gut was imagining like scum teammates being like @ phraze you’re dying please save yourself and them like pressuring her to make an effort and her doing that minimum l9”

I agree with the idea that her just lolvoting bystander is probably gut town to be honest.

[sheepsaysmeep]

I guess I value what windwardaway thinks more lol

[sheepsaysmeep]

I guess marluna could be pretty comparable but like, marluna being in what seems like less danger actually makes my gut dislike her less lmao

[Zugzwang]

@sheepsaysmeep

I agree with the idea that her just lolvoting bystander is probably gut town to be honest.

hm
do you (or anyone else) know any recent Phraze games for meta

[Zugzwang]

specifically
their reason for voting Bystander is really weak, and any reasonable person would agree IMO
so are they a player who’d have a weak read like that, and vote at eod anyway

[Zugzwang]

@Zugzwang

so are they a player who’d have a weak read like that, and vote at eod anyway

especially since, they had self-pres to consider too

[Zugzwang]

their MU account only had games from 2022 so. yeah

[Luxy]

@Zugzwang

I thought on this a bit at night
I didn’t like it then, but I also now see I misremembered “if we kill a few slankers” (bolded) as “when we chop a few slankers”
given that + the reads list I made, it makes more sense now
mmmmmmmmmmmmmm

If anything that kinda hints at the possibility that tutuu knows the two slankers and you are town and is looking to line you up as a mislynch after they flip.

I’m always cautious of people who go yeah “I’m happy to get the slankers but if they flip town then get the person who suggested doing that”. It both avoids responsibility for the flips if they are wolf, and allows for a chain of mislynches to be set up

[Luxy]

I was quite disappointed hippo flipped town there I was hoping I had a god meta read but unfortunately not.

I still think it was a better lynch than a slanker day 1 tbh as people’s treatment of hippo’s slot is readable.

In hindsight threadstate at EoD suggested hippo was town - there was very little activity suggesting that wolves were happy where the wagons were, or just not playing.

[Zugzwang]

yeah I had this thought yesterday when I thought it felt like tutuu was planning too far ahead

---

it’s also pretty bad that we have 2 slankers here ngl
because like
we can make only 4 misexes*

*considering vigs as extra day-eliminations, and assuming they’re alive, and that there are no doc-saves

[Luxy]

@Delirium

Final Votecount:

Hippopablompoyeetus (4): Bionic, bystander, Apocryphal, Luxy
Phraze (2): WindwardAway, sheepsaysmeep
SirDerpsAlot (2): sulit, Rhea
bystander (2): Hippopablompoyeetus, Phraze
Luxy (1): tutuu
Marluna (1): Marluna
LittleLee (1): SirDerpsAlot

Not Voting (4): LittleLee, Creature, Zugzwang, Frostwolf103

I mean it says a lot when the top wagon in a 17er only had 4 votes

[Luxy]

One of which was me jumping on at the last second

[Zugzwang]

@Luxy

I still think it was a better lynch than a slanker day 1 tbh as people’s treatment of hippo’s slot is readable.

I went back and forth on that at night
idk now

[Luxy]

My thinking was I am glad I voted someone based on some reasoning and what I had looked at in his past games rather than hit a slanker for no other reason than they were slanking.

[Zugzwang]

if we killed a slanker and they flipped town, we’d have killed an extremely hard to solve slot
there’s a risk they’re a powerful role though (unlike Hippo who claimed), which was and is part of my thoughts on why maybe we shouldn’t have killed marluna there
and as you said it’s a lot easier to read treatment of Hippo vs treatment of a flash wagon

[Zugzwang]

nyaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa @Marluna why aren’t you posting much rn?
IRL stuff, or just not invested

[Luxy]

@bystander

towny as fuck though

clealry does NOT know whats going on

Thinking about this in regards to Phraze - is it really that difficult for their teammates to ping them and say get into thread and just act clueless for a bit

They may even be clueless and not following mafia chat that closely due to IRL stuff

[Luxy]

@Rhea

Zugzwang t
sheepsaysmeep t
Apocryphal lt
LittleLee lt
Hippopablompoyeetus lt
sulit lt
Creature lt
tutuu lt
bystander n
Luxy n
Bionic n
Marluna n
Phraze lw
SirDerpsAlot lw
WindwardAway lw

Frostwolf103 ?

@Rhea

With that out of the way, it is time to decide on a vote.

VOTE: SirDerpsAlot.

I believe this is the most productive thing I can pursue at the moment. I find the posts SirDerpsAlot made to be weak and lack substance in a way that I feel could come from a wolf pursuing surface-level towniness, and I would like to join an existing wagon in order to maximize the effectiveness of my vote.

@Rhea

Specifically that WindwardAway is calling other people out for being incorrect: she does not accept things just because people say them, and she is willing to challenge people in a way that forces a person to develop the ability to argue coherently. A WindwardAway who is constantly rereading and nervously correcting her own posts would be a bit of a shrinking violet. The fact that people have stated that she is an experienced player, enough to vote her before she even shows up, also contributes to this impression.

@Rhea

Phraze has three posts, but I actually found her more wolfy than null.

@Phraze

omg the game started!!

hi guys I’m back
too much to read

@Phraze

if bystander is the bystander I know… we played a game in deck mafia

@Phraze

probably played with them before.

It felt like she was trying to pull some sense of presence and commentary on the game without actually doing anything. She noted how many posts there were, she noted how she’d played with somebody before, and then she seemingly ran out of things to say. It creates a nervous impression.

@Rhea

VOTE: SirDerpsAlot.

I could’ve sworn I put the period after the vote rather than in it.

@Rhea

Phraze is being somewhat unreasonable here and that’s villagery.

@Rhea

@WindwardAway

Am I missing something? The last post I saw in which you quoted me, you said my posts were wolfy but maybe you just think my posting type/personality is wolfy. I didn’t interpret that as a townread on me.

It helped me bring you closer to a townread. I would say I have a light townread on you at this point.

@Rhea

@WindwardAway

The fact that you’re continuing to debate this with me just makes me more confident you’re scum, FYI.

@WindwardAway

No, but the way this conversation is going reeks of being caught for the wrong reasons.

I appreciate this post. It is quite confident.

@WindwardAway

Personally I wouldn’t rule out v/w because I don’t townread Rhea

I somehow feel like I am expected to, but what worries me is that they ARE getting a lot of townreads already, and I worry it means they’re set up to go deepwolfing.

And I appreciate this post as well.

@Zugzwang

I have noticed that Rhea, this game, has made a lot of reads of the form “X is towny, because they are [not trying to be towny / doing an action that is generally considered wolfy when they could just not]”

I’m wondering if that’s a meta tell one way or the other
also @Rhea would you concur that you make a lot of reads this way? and do you find them to have good accuracy?

I do make a lot of reads this way. I find the individual micro-reads of this type to have questionable accuracy at times, but they are the format of reads I find most easy to make on Day 1 and can be effective against certain players. The main reason I still make them is because I find them much more effective when taken as a collective whole: by noting who does and does not consistently try to look towny, one can often find wolves more effectively, and specifically the wolves that the rest of the thread will often struggle against.

I play with the expectation that I am going to be competing against skilled players, and thus try to look for signs of skilled players wolfing. The rest of the thread can handle the easy targets for me. Perhaps if I had applied these principles more consistently, I would have won that final three in the last game we played together.

@Zugzwang

specifically, I’m asking because I find some of the ways you’ve applied it to be questionable IMO

and because in TADC mafia, I incorrectly TRed Bystander off of this type of read

It is fair enough to find the reads questionable. Please continue to question them.

I did not actually find bystander as somebody who wasn’t trying to look towny. I consistently wolfread her in that game. She was just trying to look towny in a different way from how you or I would do so.

@Rhea

To be thorough here on the reads you found questionable, Zugzwang, when I was thinking about Creature’s posts overnight, I came to the conclusion that I do not actually find him particularly towny anymore. I don’t think the reasons I gave to townread him were invalid at the time of making them, but when he showed up to complain about them, he seemed to have time only to do that and not to comment on anybody else. This could come from a demotivated villager, of course, but it still brings him more into a nullread than I had him previously.

Phraze is not particularly villagery to me. I said the way she just dismissed people speaking to her was towny, but I did not mean I townread her off of it, only that I no longer lightly wolfread her as I had been doing before.

These players are both in the same sort of position, where they have shown up mostly to respond to reads on themselves and not to give any kind of independent content. My hope would be that wolves would not play this way (well, my hope would be that nobody would play this way, but I find it more frustrating from wolves than town), but I acknowledge that this is not necessarily the case, and I can easily see one or maybe both being wolves. It is just not the type of read I prefer to pursue.

@Rhea

I feel as though I should have some opinion at all on Marluna’s behavior here, but I do not. It is hard to find somebody as town if they do not seem to want to prove themselves town or participate in the game at all. It is quite difficult to identify what win condition somebody is working toward when they do not work toward any win condition at all.

I’m just going to amplify Rhea’s reads for today to make sure they aren’t lost in the ether as so many SPKs’ reads are that later turn out to be relatively on the money.

I think there were other valid SPKs so there was certainly a reason Rhea was chosen as the night kill. It could definitely be that Rhea was the simultaneously obviously a talented player and widely townread.

[Luxy]

I don’t think WWA kills Rhea here - Rhea was townreading them after analysing a significant number of their posts and Wind had already set up that she thought Rhea’s quick townreading by most players could mean they were a deepwolf. The deepwolf paranoia already set up would be useful to W!Windy lategame and there wasn’t any threat of WWA being pushed on by Rhea

[Luxy]

This may be a bad read, but I see sheepsaysmeep as the other main possible SPK target. I think if sheep was wolf and Rhea was town, he may have actually left Rhea alone since if both of them were alive, there is less of an argument over “why is only one of the really skilled players still alive, they must be a wolf” (like Achro in FAM4). Furthermore, sheep was also at the top of Rhea’s townreads and thus, sheep wasn’t at threat of being pushed on by Rhea.