Everything else that doesn’t hit that particular point, at least that I can think of, feels more like site culture.
eg a player being an unaware miller. cop scans them red. he claims red. the former believes the other is fpsing a red on them. it can break relationships or at the very least mean words can be exchanged
or a godfather being peeked green. players spend 2 weeks playing the game on forum, then lose and feel mislead by the host. can break the relationship between host and players
“This game is non-bastard”, IMO, ideally should carry with it, like, a list of what that means, like, one example would be:
- All rolecards and flips will be truthful, but may have information hidden
- Investigative abilities will generally return true information unless redirected
- Mafia and town have [x standard win condition], third parties may or may not exist, and may or may not end the game on winning
- etc etc et al you get the point I’m bored.
Basically, if you think a mechanic is off reasonable limits, say it, don’t imply it. This won’t always work, sometimes your players will think of things you won’t, or vice versa, but I think it minimises these kinda issues.
4 Likes
we need more unaware death millers
4 Likes
FMPOV jesters aren’t bastard they just suck. I come from a community where it was once standard to have a jester in every game. Then we all decided we hated them and stopped using them. This is because we are wise
5 Likes
I didn’t get any checks because Derps vanillized me because when I said I had a modifier I hated I was talking about non-consecutive.
Didn’t think Derps would just nuke my investigative ability.
2 Likes
wait so did derps think that you were town and he genuinely derped and removed ur good modifier on accident?
did he mean to help you?
did he. double derp?
1 Like
this is a problem with the players tbh.
Scumreading and killing people in mafia is an inherent part of play, and players should not get seriously mad at eachother out of game for that.
mislead by the host is fair if they didn’t make it clear beforehand, and it wasn’t expected by site culture, but otherwise it’s fine imo
1 Like
Yes… Derps was trying to help me… and in doing so, removed any use I had to my team.
As I then just became a non-consecutive witch
1 Like
imo, even without giving all the details, the neutral here wasn’t bastard – like, the OP did warn about its existence, and nothing Zone did was misleading (except possibly not announcing MyLo earlier)
3 Likes
i wrote that out with the assumption that there were no hints and no site culture
when u have neither, i dont think its unreasonable to assume a player would assume they are being griefed
3 Likes
Yeye
This was just a mod error tho
Game-ending jester is closer to the line of being bastard FMPOV but again it’s less… the host lying to or toying with you for their own entertainment and more… questionable game design. In the same way I wouldn’t call a poorly balanced game bastard, I wouldn’t really call a game-ending jester bastard. Just miserable!
Bastard, in my mind, is for the secret extra mechanics like fake flips or rolecards or BotC Atheist or whatever that are actually a potentially interesting design space so long as players know to expect them. Sometimes roles suck and are unfun, and they’re not, like, Against The Rules to put in your setup, simply Unwise
3 Likes
this is also an Objectively Correct Take but the neutral this game doesn’t feel particularly close to the ~nebulous line~
4 Likes
I think the possibility of false investigative results should have been outlined in the OP tho
1 Like
there were false?
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I don’t consider these Actively Bastard but fol expects it so
An Early Death cannot be tracked
The tracker in the game can’t track deaths though?
1 Like
Yes but that ability also doesn’t always kill
1 Like