i do feel like this is the ideal compromise, yeah
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Given all of the above, and given nobody is ever forced to say something they can’t make public, and particularly given how many rules we have restricting what you can say within the context of the game, I just don’t see any good arguments for shutting out an entire wolf chat in just about any scenario.
Everyone’s well-being is important, but by signing up for a game that inherently involves being under scrutiny from others, we all agree to give a bit of ourselves up to be attacked by others, and it is only by the rules we set that we ensure all players feel they are being treated fairly in this exchange.
do you think that if i took notes, did analysis, or stored readlists in my classcard as town that those should go public as well, if anybody asked?
this is just out of curiosity, i have no argument that i’m trying to make
I would personally
Hell I’ve released hydra chats before lol
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Generally, though, town members, by the nature of the game, show their work
Mafia members inherently do not
i do think that the crux of our disagreement is generally that
we disagree about what we want to receive out of mafia games (i get the feeling that you want all the cards on the table and to really understand the game intricately, while i don’t particularly), and therefore we disagree about what a fair price to pay in order to get that is (naturally if you wanted more than me, you would be willing to pay more than me to do it)
obviously there’s nothing wrong with that
and i do feel comfortable after reaching through that we can work through to a compromise to play together that we can generally both feel is close to fair, even though it’s not perfectly so
which makes this a more productive conversation than many!
please do correct me if i’m wrong though
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maybe it shouldn’t be used for that then?
also, i’m not advocating for a blanket disallowance, just that there’s a bit more investigation when wolves request for wolf chat to not be released rather than it being something done without any kind of resistance
what about rolecard
read to the end and then ask me any outstanding questions you have then, because i do change my mind a lot and i dont wanna endlessly rehash everything
I suppose I wouldn’t hate if scumteams had a single allocated private channel that was reserved for discussion they wouldn’t feel comfortable sharing publicly, although I still think that falls into slippery territory where people treat that chat as an unmoderated space when it shouldn’t be.
For what Snowe said about discussing heavy topics, I don’t think that’s necessarily something that should be imposed on other players or the host in a groupchat, but if someone’s really opposed to venting about whatever in their private rolecard for some reason, I think it’s a fair compromise. Players can see what happens in scumchats during games, evils have the freedom to discuss whatever they need in a safe environment together, if that makes a difference.
again like, “i’m not comfortable with this being public” doesn’t mean “unmoderated”
you still report crap to the mods if it breaks forum rules
it’s not the public’s job to comb through wolfchat and look for forum rule violations, if you see something then you report it and that’s what the mods are for
but some things it just doesn’t make sense to demand to be public purely for the sake of moderation
like i wouldn’t demand all private messages be public so i can make sure that nobody broke the forum rules although magnus can just add themselves to them all anyways
i’m fine with most of it being public for the sake of studying and meta-information and whatnot just like orange and arctic have been saying, i just think that the situation where you have like 6 randomly chosen people in a chat and someone trusts all of them to not report rule violations to the mods is incredibly rare, and in the cases where it does exist there’s nothing stopping them from doing it in an identically off-forum space
if someone is legitimately making you uncomfortable in wolfchat, reach out to a mod that’s not playing, at least i assume that’s what the mods are there for
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all this is spitballed and not super well thought out ftr
i know some people who get really stressed when playing mafia and need an empty void to vent into. Maf chat is usually that void because tis fairly easy (and persoanlly if i wanted to vent about something that was occuring on forums i would not use forums because there is the potential to accidentaly post somewhere you dont intend to)(speaking frok experience)
I dont really see why its a big problem for scum chats to not be released. Theres a number of reasons that people might not want it to be and i think trying to decide on a case by case basis of whether it should be released would lead to someone always being unhappy. I really dont think maf chat is being used as a secret way to break all the forum rules while mods arent looking, if there is any rules broken ya get a mod ofc.
I also have been apart of two wolf chats who havent been realeased, one as a host and one as a player, and both were for completely reasonable things imo. (Tbf in one of them a player did doxx themselves which xan be kinda universally agreed upon to not release) but the other one the players didnt want it released, i saw why, and so i didnt release it. If i got to the end of a game as a host and got a ping from wolves saying “hey dont release this please” and i didnt see a good reason why i would ask them as a host and try to figure out why they wanted it to not be released. I really dont think people ar eusing it to hide information about their playstyle or break rules or anything like that though. We established the release, redact info, or dont release as a general guideline for a reason
I dont really understand why its a big deal people dont have scum chat released though, but from what im understanding thats jsut me
For the record
At least 2/4 of those times had solid reasonings
1/4 of them had a fine reasoning from my pov
Dunno about the last one
FTR id be fine with reasing the anon wolf chat presuming I was able to delete like. 5 messages
It just didnt accur to me at the time
since people keep saying this, I have seen someone admit this in a recent game and I do in fact have receipts
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those are not very good fractions
I’ve recently been playing on a site where wolfchat is always released by default, as is graveyard chat. The idea of not releasing it didn’t even cross anyone’s mind there.
And it works, I think?
my stance is
it works for most people but there are exception cases for some (though how legitimate you think they depends on what you want to put into or take out of the game, as detailed above)
if you just want to make decisions that optimize the experience for normal people, then go ahead by all means
i think it all depends on whether you want to give up some of your own experience to be more accomodating to abnormal people (whether you think they’re deserving or not), then go ahead by all means
i don’t mind either way
Snowe, I understand venting in wolfchat because you need to vent due to mafia, which means you can’t do that outside of wolfchat. I also understand venting there because you know these people are on the same team as you.
However, if any other villager in the game was on your wolfteam instead, they would also see you venting. When wolfchat is released, it’s like every player in the game suddenly gaining TMI.
I have a question: would you not feel comfortable venting to every player in your mafia game, if they were on your team? Do you only vent if there are certain people on your mafia team?
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