IDK if this was thought of due to the fact I can often find posts in seconds, but no I haven’t been making such a tool, I just can often remember a specific phrase to search for. Though that’s a good idea and I should probably write it…
oh cool
also IDK if you heard this but the raw text pages occasionally have incorrect timestamps (not sure if the same error happens to normal timestamps)
(I know some of the raw text timestamps are wrong because they go backwards)
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link me to those posts?
yeah the timestamp on may’s post is wrong
this is very likely because it was edited?
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fundementally I think it runs into “what is mafia” - if the community considers that research & data compliation skills are part of mafia and not just analysis of said data then ban computerized tools
I’m seeing a slippery slope of where it could get to a point that programs can compile & process so much data that it’s physically impossible for a human to do the same task by EoD deadlines
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really the problem is that not everyone has access to those types of programs, or rather not everyone has the skillset to create those types of programs
we agree that if people are on equal footing (like everyone having access to discourse ISOs or whatever) then it’s fair
so I suppose if you force developers to disclose source code of programs if they’re going to use them in game that’s fine, but also mehhhh
…
tbh this type of thing should be kept within a special game category, that expressly allows the use of a computerised tools to assist in playing mafia
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yeah tbh the easiest (and most tempting) option is to just ban outside programs and only allow those that are part of the site
on that note we could try to get a multi-iso plugin so that everyone has access to it, but there are some annoying factors that go into getting new custom plugins as well lol
(for clarity the most annoying factor is that we’d have to update to the newest Discourse version, which is VERY ugly and also very stupid
i swear every time they update the software just gets more complicated and stupid looking)
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Why? This expressly starts introducing programming skills into mafia. Mafia is not intended to measure programming skills.
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oh that would explain it
and yeah that makes the timestamps match
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real
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Oh THAT’S why I specifically had a ton of fucked up timestamps, I edit posts a lot
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Are we all in agreement that mafia should not be influenced at all, directly or indirectly, by programming skills?
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I’m gonna go out on a limb and say no?
like yeah obviously we don’t want it to be a coding challenge, but I think going too far in the other direction is possible and I believe outright banning stuff like this entirely is in fact that
for example
I think analyzing timestamps is a valid part of FM gameplay
a program that pulls that information and compiles it for you seems to me to be a valid thing to create that does not leave the scope of “FM gameplay” because you are still doing the ultimate analysis and using it to build an argument that you are presenting to other real people
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In an ideal world, yes - but we have to make tradeoffs about what is allowed to influence the game.
For example, we make the tradeoff of allowing likes in games, even though there are some unfortunate results (ie, a specific player may know someone is lurking/reading up, while everyone else does not, due to notifcations).
One could also argue (as Orange has done above) that access to previous games / wolfchats shouldn’t affect the current game, but again that’s a tradeoff we have to make if we want to allow meta from there.
I feel the benefits of allowing programmed tools outweigh the negatives, especially since I have released multi-iso and vote compilation, and plan to release others once I get them polished enough.
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does that give somebody with the skills to create that program an advantage over somebody without that knowledge?
I would go so far as to say no still to that
Because somebody without those skills could use the time that was spent setting up, executing, and analyzing the results of this tool to carry on different, also completely valid analysis
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the fun thing about a messy social game like FM is that, for now, machines can’t solve it for you
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eventually they will but A that probably will require zero coding knowledge to abuse and B we can cross that bridge when we get there
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