Graduates in arts and humanities were more likely to be under-using their education.
Yeah
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This is probably true in the US too
AFAIK arts and humanities degrees are considered ~useless because no one wants to hire
And given the absurd price of going to school for it…
It is definitely useful for developing your skills but no one is going to pay 40k or higher for that when it’s something you can do by just doing it, albeit at a slower rate
I was skeptical of it myself tbh, but ignoring it for the sake of my agenda (not like intentionally wolfing but rationalizing gut dislike of allowing this sort of thing). I really just think it’s all downside to allow automated statistical analysis on large, automatically collected data sets. It can add strain to servers from scraping. If it’s done automatically it can be compelled which is always icky like “Lumi do the analysis or you’re Mafia” whereas you at least have an excuse if it’s tedious to do it.
Idk I’m tired of trying to make a case for this, and a lot of times it’s innocuous, but every time I’ve seen something like this in a game thread, it’s made the game worse. Like there was an example a few years ago in Champs where someone wrongly accused someone of being Mafia doing something like what we’re talking about here, and spec chat hated it regardless of its veracity. It had a weird effect on the game state, and so much time was spent talking about the validity of this thing that was largely unrelated to literally everything going on the thread. It just wasn’t fruitful for any party involved except for wolves because they got to hide behind a bullshit discussion that failed to advance the game state for hours or days, idr how long this particular fiasco lasted. My opinion on this sort of thing ossified then, and maybe I’m just hard conf-biased.
I don’t even go to this school idk why I care so much anyway. Why am I like this
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hm okay
I have an alt on which I have played one (1) wolfgame, which was also a light game, and no other games
I think under your theory we would theoretically expect that account to have a much lower un-normalized word variance as mafia than my main, and a ~vaguely comparable word variance after normalizing for wordcount?
whereas if it is being normalized then we’d expect that account to have ~comparable word variance as mafia to my main without doing any normalization
(of course it’s also possible that playing on an alt, in a light game, or in a one-game sample size could be messing things up, but just, registering general predictions under each theory before I check)
update: apparently if you have only played as one alignment it doesn’t give you a word variance score
You think it’s all downside because you don’t enjoy discussions that involve it. Labeling it as “all downside” is your opinion not a fact.
Plenty of things can be compelled, people try to compel other people to post more all the time because of volume tells. Should that kind of behavior be banned?
Not even to mention that trying to compel someone to do statistical analysis is particularly silly, because it doesn’t even work.
And re: it making the game worse. There are plenty of kinds of arguments and reads that consistently don’t advance game state, degrade thread health, help wolves, and arguably make the game worse. Should those all be banned too?
Banning a style of read just because you don’t like seeing it and it tends to derail thread is kind of a wild, heavy-handed take IMO.
Disliking seeing it? Sure, absolutely. Not engaging with it? Totally fair.
But making it a site rule that you’re not even allowed to talk about it? Wild take imo.
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this isn’t relevant to FoL site policy but I wanted to know:
aret_ aret_ — Today at 3:29 PM
hey Makaze do you happen to know if the word variance statistic in the player analysis tool is normalizing for total postcount and/or total wordcount as each alignment? (I know we aren’t allowed to cite that information in a game, don’t worry, I’m not in any ongoing mafia games and don’t intend to use this information for disallowed purposes)
Makaze — Today at 3:30 PM
word variance uses the percent usage per alignment of the total for denominator (edited)
if you hover over or click on the statistic it should show the formula as a part of that description
in the profile graph not the word table
aret_ aret_ — Today at 3:32 PM
yeah I see the {Average Word Variance As Town}/({Average Word Variance As Town} + {Average Word Variance As Mafia}) formula, I’m just not sure how it’s getting the raw numbers that it puts into those
I might be misunderstanding you
Makaze — Today at 3:35 PM
I’d have to look up the actual code again which I can’t do rn
based on the graph that I’m seeing for my turbo stats it has to be number of words * weight / all words
and weight of each word is based on ratio of frequency as each alignment, typically dropping words with perfect variance
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I was never claiming it was anything beyond my opinion. I don’t like qualifying statements with “just my opinion” because I feel like it’s implied by me saying it.
And I don’t think everything that is liked by someone should be banned, but sites, including FoL, ban stuff that players generally don’t enjoy? Angleshooting (really just gamesmanship) is disallowed pretty much everywhere, same with OGI and trust tells. IIRC there are rules against certain kinds of AtE or whatever it was called because it sucked to play in games with. It’s an absurd argument that just because we shouldn’t ban all things disliked by some people that we shouldn’t ban this one particular thing.
Also I’ve intentionally tried to be really narrow about what I’m advocating be disallowed which is a combination of tools that collate data, and analyze that data. I don’t want to argue about someone’s big data statistics if I’m playing Mafia especially because odds are it’s just tea leaves, and yet I’d have to spend a lot of time figuring out why it’s tea leaves and then explaining to people why we should ignore it. I get that you like statistics, and I’ve been trying from the beginning make sure most of it is still allowed, but the extreme end of it just sucks in my experience so I would like to see it banned.
I might be misunderstanding what they mean, but measuring the variance by using weights of the ratio of frequency of use as each alignment feels like an odd decision to me.
I should ask them more about it too after I’m done with Sc2Mafia Anni Mash.
To me the natural way to do a word variance analysis would be by performing a best-fit to either a Zipfian distribution or a Zipf-Mandelbrot distribution, take advantage of the scale invariance property of such power law distributions, and then compare the fitted shape parameters, including the margin of error.
Would have to think a bit about if other methods would be actually valid and if they possess the same scale invariant properties.
Tbf this entire discussion is to gauge the community’s opinion on things - we try to decide our policies based on what the mass majority of people prefer as we can, and also what would make the most people happy and comfortable
Opinions are welcome in this threadze
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Here’s my program that can gauge a player’s alignment with 75% accuracy. I expect my ban to be processed within the hour.
print("town")
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I apply this program every time I read May
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wtf this was barely half as accurate as you said it would be
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brb testing this on BOTC
wtf town isn’t even alignment. 75% accuracy my ass
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Angleshooting and OGI have game integrity issues, which is a different topic.
Banning certain kinds of AtE is a better comparison, and yeah, I agree that certain things that suck to play with should be banned. But it depends on why they suck to play with. AtE sucks to play with because it tends to be very emotional and damaging to out-of-game mental health. Statistical arguments do not have that same effect.
You not wanting to have to argue about someone’s statistics is valid. But it doesn’t have the same issues that certain kinds of AtE have.
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