Why I made the comparison is that what I’m talking about banning is similar to LLM generative AI models. ChatGPT is a stochastic word calculator, using an enormous corpus of text to predict what words are going to come after other words. (This is reductive for the sake of being understandable.) People attribute way more intelligence and trust to them that are warranted because they’re really good at making salient seeming text. I just think that at a certain scale and complexity, it seems Smart and people shut their brains off about it, and I don’t see why it should be allowed in this extreme version of it.
I just think it’s not good for the game to head in that direction lol
I remain highly skeptical that they will
and if they do we can adjust over time
so basically what lumi said lol
relevant lumi quote
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I also agree with the Lumi quote and I was typing up a reply that was just that. But I deleted the reply. Because itw as just the Lumi quote
If anybody makes the Mafia Calculator 5000 and its banned you have my permission to run it on me and pretend you didnt
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I want you sniping my alignment in the first 5 minutes of the game every game I want to be destroyed
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2022 Most Dedicated Player
A thought:
So that we don’t have to make an impossibly giant comprehensive list of all third-party apps you’re allowed to use during a mafia game (like screen readers, color contrast browser extensions, zooming, etc), we were thinking of instead simply making a list of approved custom third-party programs. So, those specifically created by or for players for mafia.
Are there any obvious counterexamples of programs not designed by/for players that could give people an unfair advantage? (Ofc if you think mentioning it in the thread could cause game integrity issues, please DM me lol)
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(the following might be a common opinion here? regardless though, I haven’t responded to this idea)
I like the idea of having a whitelist of programs that we can talk about in thread, while having other programs be usable as long as they’re not mentioned. That allows people developing programs to test them while in a game, which is pretty helpful for finding edge cases, or figuring out what is/isn’t cumbersome/practically useful. For example, if I were to write a search program, to determine whether it actually helps search in practice, it’d be ~necessary to try it in a game.
Having a whitelist of programs does push the question of “should X be allowed” down the line, but given that the current discussion is revolving around hypotheticals, that’s probably for the best. It’s a lot easier to gauge whether a program should be allowed when it… exists.
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Additionally it seems like ~pretty much everybody (?) agrees that these are fine:
- Multi-iso
- Compiling past votes
- Checking the page source
It seems that a lot of people also agree that these are not fine:
- Scheduling posts (as a player)
- Programs that analyze data FOR you (like AI)
- Things that cause lots of strain on the server
Yeah?
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from what I can tell yeah
Yeah currently my inclination is to make a list of approved programs that are both okay to use and okay to talk about, as well as a list of things that are absolutely not allowed (like AI)
Everything inbetween would be allowed for private use, but can’t be mentioned in the thread
And people can have things approved - it would be a changing list
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Depends on the definition of “analyse data for you” here? I agree LLM shit is proooobably over line but like. There is little difference between making this graph:
and running a bit of analysis to tell you whether a given game falls statistically closer to “town” or “mafia”, which could easily be done by hand.
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units: dude trust me
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i’m actually a big fan of server strain i hate the server
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If it sounds like they’re consulting a Magic 8 Ball I think there’s definitely a problem. Just like “well I’m not calling you a wolf, that’s just what my spreadsheet says, and you should argue with that rather than me” is like the thing we should be trying to avoid right
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Yeah I think that’s kinda where the debate lies now? And I’d love more opinions on it - I’m kinda trying to stay away from influencing ppl and trying to absorb the community’s opinions rn
If everyone agrees with the above things I listed, it comes down to finding the line between whats okay and not okay for things that Compile Information
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Also do other people need to have access to the program you’re using? Does it need to be free as well? Is it a problem if it’s only usable if you know Catonese? Would a player be required to share their data/input for a tool so someone can replicate their test? If they gathered it with a scraper, does the scraper also need to be accessible?