Weekly Monday Discussion - Vanilla Roles

Hi everyone,

We’re looking into creating a list of “vanilla” roles, so that players and hosts know what roles qualify as “vanilla” when deciding how to classify setups (see this post). Our current draft is based on an old list from Mafia Colosseum, and may not entirely reflect the reality of play on the site.

We’re interested in hearing feedback on:

  • What roles/modifiers/etc. we should add
  • What roles/modifiers/etc. we should remove
  • What roles/modifiers/etc. we should modify

Here’s our current draft:

Summary

Vanilla Roles & Modifiers


This is a comprehensive list of roles that are considered vanilla on Fortress of Lies.

If you would like to see a role added or removed from this list, you can make a #feedback-suggestions-support thread or contact a member of the staff team.

Communicative

  • Messenger - Each Night, may target another player and write a message for that player. The host relays that message to the target.
  • Modposter - Each Night, may write a message. The host posts that message anonymously in the game thread.
  • Neighbor - The Neighbor has a chat with any number of other player(s) who are also Neighbor(s).
  • Neighborizer (Part of the Neighborhood or not) - Each Night, may target another player. That player is added to the Neighbouizer’s Neighborhood.
  • Temporary Neighborizer (Not Part of the Neighborhood) - Each Night, may target two (or more, at host discretion) other players. Those players become Neighbors with each other for the duration of the Night phase.
  • Temporary Neighborizer (Part of the Neighborhood) - Each Night, may target another player. That player becomes a Neighbor with the Temporary Neighborizer for the duration of the Night phase.

Commuters/Hiders

  • Commuter - Each Night, may make themself unable to target or be targeted by actions until the end of the Night.
  • Commuterizer (With/without a chat)- Each Night, may target another player to make that player unable to target or be targeted by actions until the end of the Night. May or may not gain a chat with that player.
  • Hider - Each Night, may hide behind another target player. If that player would die, the Hider dies as well. The Hider is unable to be targeted by actions until the end of the Night while hiding behind another player. [Note: This role typically has the Weak modifier]

Investigative (Actions):

  • Follower - Each Night, may target another player to check what actions that player took.
  • Motion Detector - Each Night, may target another player to check if that player used or was targeted by an action. The Motion Detector will not know which happened.
  • Tracker - Each Night, may target another player to check who that player targeted.
  • Voyeur - Each Night, may target another player to check what actions that player was targeted by.
  • Watcher - Each Night, may target another player to check who targeted that player.

Investigative (Roles):

  • Ability Cop - Each Night, may target another player to check that player’s abilities.
  • Alignment Cop - Each Night, may target another player to check that player’s alignment.
  • Flavor Cop - Each Night, may target another player to check that player’s role flavor only.
  • Neapolitan (Vanilla Townie Cop) - Each Night, may target another player to check if that player is Vanilla Town.
  • Parity Cop - Each Night, may target a player and check if that player’s alignment is the same as the previous player they targeted. In some variants, this instead compares to their result from the previous night.
  • Rolecop - Each Night, may target another player to check that player’s role flavor and abilities.
  • Vanilla Cop - Each Night, may target another player to check if that player is Vanilla.
  • Weapon Cop (Gunsmith) - Each Night, may target another player to check if that player has a killing ability.

Killing

  • Bomb - When the Bomb dies, they kill the player who killed them. [Note: This role typically has the strongman modifier]
  • Day Vigilante - Each Day, may publicly target another player to attempt to kill that player.
  • Desperado - Each Day, may publicly target another player to check that player’s alignment. If that player shows up as non-Town, the Desperado attempts to kill that player. If the player shows up as town, the Desperado dies.
  • Midnight Desperado - Each Night, may target another player to check that player’s alignment. If that player shows up as non-Town, the Midnight Desperado attempts to kill that player. If the player shows up as town, the Midnight Desperado dies.
  • Poisoner - Each Night, may target another player to poison that player. A poisoned player dies at the end of the following Day phase, and this is announced publicly at the start of the Day. Poisoners typically have a fake poison that can be used alongside the real poison. A fake poisoned player will not die at the end of the following Day phase.
  • Vengeful - When the Vengeful dies (or when eliminated), they may kill a player.
  • Vigilante - Each Night, may target another player to attempt to kill that player.

Protective

  • Babysitter - Doctor that kills their target that Night if the Doctor dies.
  • Bodyguard (Protection Version) - Doctor who dies if their target would have died that Night.
  • Bodyguard (Redirection Version) - Each Night, may redirect all kills from another target player to themself.
  • Bulletproof/Killproof/Elimproof - Automatically self-protected from Bullets/Kills/Eliminations, respectively.
  • Doctor - Each Night, may attempt to protect another target player from kills.
  • Poison Healer - Each Day, may target another player to save them from dying to poison.

Redirecting

  • Beguiler - Each Night, may target another player. Any actions that would target the Beguiler target that player instead.
  • Bus Driver - Each Night, may target two other players. Any actions that would target the first player target the second player, and vice versa.
  • Deflector - Each Night, may target two other players. Any actions that would target the first player target the second player instead.
  • Lightning Rod (Also sometimes known as Paladin) - Each Night, may target another player. Any actions that would target that player target the Lightning Rod instead.
  • Magnet (Also sometimes known as Interceptor) - Each Night, may target another player. Any actions that player would take target the Magnet instead of any other target.
  • Redirector - Each Night, may target two other players. Any actions the first player would take target the second player instead of any other target.

Roleblocking

  • Alien - Each Night, may target another player. Non-Killing actions targeting that player are prevented this Night and that player’s actions are prevented this Night.
  • Jailkeeper (With/without a chat) - Each Night, may target another player. That player is protected from kills this Night and their actions are roleblocked.
  • Roleblocker - Each Night, may target another player. That player’s actions are prevented this Night.
  • Rolestopper - Each Night, may target another player. Non-Killing actions targeting that player are prevented this Night.
  • Role Thief - Each Night, may target another player. The Role Thief may use that player’s abilities that Night and that player is roleblocked that Night.

Voting

  • Gladiator - Each Day, may publicly target another player. Only that player and the Gladiator can be voted for.
  • X-voter - Their vote weight counts for X instead of the normal amount. This may be public or hidden. Typically disabled in XyLo.

Miscellaneous

  • Ability Copier - Each Night, may target another player. The Copier takes each action that player takes this Night.
  • Arms Dealer - Each Night, may target another player to give them a (Day/Night) Vigilante action, which can be used the following (Day/Night) phase.
  • Backups - When the relevant player dies, the Backup can use that role.
  • Clown - Each Night, may target another player to give them a pie. This pie can be thrown at another player as a Day action.
  • Fruit Vendor - Each Night, may target another player to give them a useless item.
  • Inventors - Each Night, may target another player to give them an item with an ability linked to it. Usually the ability is 1-shot and it must be normal.
  • Role Copier - Each Night, may target another player. The Role Copier becomes a copy of that player.
  • Universal Backup - May backup any player of their alignment. In some variants, passively backs up the first player of their alignment to die.
  • Useless Baker - Each Night, may target another player to give them a loaf of bread. This loaf can be eaten as a Night action.
  • Vanillizer - Each Night, may target another player. That player becomes Vanilla for the rest of the game. They will be informed of this.
  • Visitor - Each Night, may target another player.

Alignment-Specific

Town only:

  • Friendly Neighbor [Communicative] - Each Night, may target another player. The host messages that player the Friendly Neighbor’s alignment.
  • Innocent Child - As a public Day action, may have the host reveal their alignment to the thread.
  • Mason - Neighbor who is confirmed to their fellow Masons to be town.
  • Masonizer [Communicative, immediately after permanent Neighborizer] - Neighborizer whose neighbors are confirmed to their fellow Masons to be town. [Note: This role typically has the Weak modifier]
  • Miller - Shows up as Mafia to Alignment checks. The thread must know that unreliable information can exist.
  • Vanilla Town - No abilities.

Mafia only:

  • Godfather - Shows up as Town to Alignment checks. The thread should know that unreliable information can exist.

  • Lost Wolf - Not in Mafia chat. By default, the Mafia and the Lost Wolf do not know each other’s identities. Common variations are listed below:

    • The Mafia know there is a Lost Wolf.
    • The Mafia know the identity of the Lost Wolf.
    • The Lost Wolf knows the identities of the Mafia.
    • The Lost Wolf can join Mafia chat by satisfying some condition, such as being nightkilled or targeting a member of the Mafia with their abilities.
    • The Lost Wolf appears to be Town or Neutral to investigations (in a closed setup, the game must know that unreliable information can exist).
  • Mafia Goon [Vanilla] - No abilities other than Mafia chat and factional kill.

Neutral only:

  • Angel - At the beginning of the game, the Angel receives or chooses a target. The Angel wins the game if their target is alive at the end of the game. As long as the Angel is alive, if their target would die, the Angel dies instead.
  • Executioner - At the beginning of the game, the Executioner receives or chooses a target. The Executioner wins the game if their target is executed.
  • Serial Killer - Each Night, may target another player to attempt to kill that player. Wins if all other players are eliminated, whether or not the Serial Killer is alive.
  • Survivor - Wins if they survive to the end of the game.

Modifiers

Anti-Action:

  • Ascetic - Any non-killing actions that target the Ascetic are prevented.
  • Macho - The player can’t be protected.
  • Ninja - The player’s actions and targets can’t be checked. The thread should know that unreliable information can exist.
  • Strongman - This player’s killing actions cannot be protected against. In some setups, this may also include being Strongwill.
  • Strongwill - This player’s actions cannot be roleblocked.

Target-Limiting

  • Avoidant - The ability cannot target the same player two times in a row.
  • Disloyal - The ability can only target players of the opposite alignment.
  • Loyal - The ability can only target players of the same alignment.
  • Multi-Target - The ability can target multiple players.
  • Regretful - The player using the ability dies if they target Town.
  • Weak - The player using the ability dies if they target Scum.
  • X-Unique - The ability cannot target the same player more than X times per game.

Timing-Limiting

  • Any modifier restricting ability usage to a specific set of nights (e.g. Even/Odd Night, Night Specific)
  • {X-phase/round} Cooldown - It takes X phases (of whatever type) or rounds for the ability to be able to be used again.
  • Non-Consecutive Night - The ability cannot be used two Nights in a row.
  • Non-Consecutive Day - The ability cannot be used two Days in a row.
  • X-Shot - The ability or abilities can only be used X times per game.

Other:

  • Activated (Triggered) - The ability happens when a certain trigger occurs.
  • Announcing - The ability is announced to its target when it is used.
  • Burnout - When the ability is used, the player becomes Vanilla.
  • Combined - The ability is a combination of two other vanilla abilities.
  • Compulsive - The player must use the ability every time able.
  • Conditional - The ability must meet certain conditions to be used. Normal conditions include:
    • Claim (e.g. Claimvig) - Must provide the target’s role, or a post where the target claimed.
    • Slank (e.g. Slankvig) - Target must have posted below a minimum amount or proportion.
    • Spam (e.g. Spamvig) - Target must have posted above a maximum amount or proportion.
  • Delayed - The ability occurs at a later time.
  • Event - The ability being activated is announced in thread, but not its targets or results.
  • JOAT - The player has multiple abilities, which typically have limited shots.
  • Loud - The player targeted learns that they are targeted by the player with the ability.
  • Multitasking (Extra Action) - The ability can be used alongside other abilities.
  • Public - The ability is activated publicly.
  • Vengeful - The ability triggers when the player dies.
3 Likes

holy shit its monday

you cant use your mod abuse to hide the truth

5 Likes

it’s literally Sunday katze??

1 Like

No… it’s definitely Monday 06:20 right now.

2 Likes

This thread is… an announcement, except the title says “discussion”. :thinking:
Why… do we have to make a new thread, when we can literally just talk here, in the “discussion” thread?

because we forgot to rewrite that line for this post :joy_cat:

oh

uh

when I copied all the roles, I also copied our planned note for the post that Officially Codifies the roles (which doesn’t exist yet)

you can discuss here. this is the discussion thread. :joy_cat:

2 Likes

Why is this vanilla

Add Gun Dealer, it’s a Vanilla.

Each night give target player a gun to use the following day. You can choose to make that gun empty.

we have Arms Dealer, which is nearly identical except for the fact that it can’t give out fakes

Sadge.

It should IMO tbh.

ungated mafia vigilante is vanilla apparently

1 Like

for clarity, setups are still subject to balance review even if they only use vanilla roles :joy_cat:

2 Likes

I get that this is supposed to be a weaker Tracker, but somehow this has become a pseudo Role Cop in an open Vanilla setup.

We might need a clarification on how this role works if it gets executed. Because dying by execution is still a death, except this time it’s done by multiple players.

–actually, we probably also need a clarification on how it operates if multiple attackers / killers (e.g. mafia, vigilante, serial killer) visited this role on the same night.

Perhaps specify when the Vengeful may kill a player. If Vengeful dies at night, does day start get delayed until Vengeful has chosen their target, or do they have to choose a target prior to their death in order for their ability to work?

  1. I have never heard of this role.
  2. Wouldn’t this role be multi-classing Protective/Killing, kind of like CPR Doctor?
  3. How does this role even work? Does it only kill targets on Nights when Doctors die, or does it also kill its targets after a Doctor (assuming there are multiple) has died?

I get that it’s Protective because it’s called Bodyguard, but if you ignore that, why is the Redirection Version in Protective and not Redirection?

Actually, why are there even two versions in the first place? This list’s version of Strongwilled only gives immunity to roleblocks and not redirections, and this list’s version of Strongman only negates heals / protections, so is the Redirecting Bodyguard just “a better version” of Bodyguard that is immune to both modifiers?

I don’t use these often (if at all) in my setups, because: How exactly does this work? What’s the chronology / action order?

  • Target a player at night
  • “Can use target player’s ability” at the same night

How does this work with OoO (order of operations)? When will the Role Thief be informed of their target’s ability, and when can the Role Thief use their target’s ability?

Do they choose someone, and then have the host be like: “Oh dear, I gotta tell them what they have ASAP!” –only to say they actually wanted to switch targets after seeing their initial target’s role?

–also, I feel like this ought to belong to a Power-Gaining class.

I plea for the mandate disabling Voting class abilities in XYLO. Imagine being Town Gladiator targeting another Town at XYLO, causing the game to end. I don’t think that’s a good idea.

Who does the Copier target? If Copier targets Alignment Cop, who was targeting a Mafia Tracker, would Copier be checking for the Tracker or the Cop?

I feel like this really needs to be reworded… We all ought to know what a Backup is, but this description can easily be misinterpreted.

Would the Role Copier therefore lose their ability to copy other players’ roles?

:eyes:
Oh, I am going to have some fun in filling the Vanilla Queue!

Wait… :joy: This just means that any role I can think of can be considered as Vanilla. :joy:

I was thinking: “How could CPR Doctor be Vanilla?” But this is just the answer!

CPR Doctor is a…

  • combined role of…
  • Doctor with a condition that the target is attacked…
  • and…
  • Vigilante with a condition that the target is not attacked.

What defines as “publicly” and what separates this modifier from the “Event” modifier?

my understanding is that “public” is like

you are a Public Dayvig = you have to publicly submit your dayvig ability (e.g., post /dayvig katze in the thread)

vs.

you are an Event Dayvig = “A dayvig ability has been activated” is announced publicly

(although obviously in most cases it will. Be announced anyway. :joy_cat:)

2 Likes

Zone i think it would be incredibly healthy if you considered the phrase “just because you could doesnt mean you should”

add sorcerer so sorc17 can be vanilla

5 Likes

I have considered it and I have come to the conclusion that generic Vanilla is too boring.

But also: I already have my backlog filled with Special setups, and I’d rather not host two games at once for an extended period of time.

1 Like

petition to add helicopter
Hider ELIm-proof COP docTOR
its absolute garbage as a character but it has a funny name

5 Likes