BOTC/BOTF Discussion Thread 2

[Zugzwang]

@Magnus

I don’t think “it’s too strong” is necessarily as valid as the High Priestess “it’s too strong” stance, but more so that it’s like Pacifist in that it could be run in a fashion which is more useful than useless and actively fun. The General wants to see the scale flipping back and forth more than “it’s the midgame so I’m just learning neutral every night”.

Based on the suggestions you’ve made:

@Magnus

Irrespective of how characters rank against one another, I’d say. Atlas and Zug ran High Priestess really well, but that’s not a courtesy every subjective role just gets by default; I’ve run them improperly, many others have as well.

The main issue with General seems to be most information being borderline unhelpful unless either team has an ace up their sleeve. Retroactive reading along the lines of “evil = mistake, good = perfect play” might be far nicer.

Like for that game, let’s say you received a Good after Jarek’s death to signify a successful read, then another Good after the failed misexecution and Hazard’s death to signify it wasn’t an error nor was there a Vigormortis kill (thereby preventing all the issues we later ran into).

If the General received a Good after Jarek’s death, that would be heavy info against Jarek, wouldn’t it? That would have been very strong IMO.

And in general, if the primary decision the General’s information is based off of is the previous day’s execution, that would frequently end up similar to an alignment cop (which perhaps is fine if the script is built around it - Undertaker and Oracle do exist, after all - but I would say that when building the script the way general is being run would have to be kept in mind)

[Magnus]

@Zugzwang

If the General received a Good after Jarek’s death, that would be heavy info against Jarek, wouldn’t it? That would have been very strong IMO.

Broadly speaking that interpretation seems fair, although I think there’d be more nuance to the declaration. Jarek wasn’t in danger until the very end, so if he was never pushed Chomps presumably would’ve died on D1 (and Zone would’ve lived just barely). So an “evil” isn’t innately appropriate here unless w!Zone really needed to survive there. Flipping onto v!Jarek at the end, thereby rescuing w!Chomps would a mistake warranting an “evil” — so arguably “Good” necessarily just means Chomps isn’t evil and Jarek is more likely evil than not (although theoretically the Noble information could be wrong and so Jarek was just the best outcome out of three anticipated bad, or Zone the Minion was never in danger, or some such).

Personally I wouldn’t mind General sounding extremely useful, so long as it’s still run in a fashion abiding by its intent. I prefer it over just existing to fill in a niche, and it is a Townsfolk. Powerful information balanced by both having to take deliberate action to shape your information around, and needing to interpret it in a vacuum.

[Magnus]

I have the temptation to run Fifth Wind.

[Atlas]

what is the script

[Magnus]

[Atlas]

this script seems 50% really good and 50% atheist (i don’t like atheist)

[Magnus]

The script description talks about Atheist as existing to upset the expected major and half-secretive logic chains that would be present in a standard game, deliberately invoking “it was all for nothing”, and perhaps the Storyteller forcing a premature end to the proceedings — I’m unsure.

[Atlas]

it seems way more fun to be evil on the script than good

[Amelia]

i am sorry for being the reason atheist is on this script but it was too perfect

[Amelia]

atheist is mainly on script, aside from it just working well, because good players actually have an incentive to bluff it

[Atlas]

which are?

[Magnus]

Presumably as a Magician equivalent.

[Atlas]

right my mind blanked and i only looked at townsfolk/outsiders

[Amelia]

so you see how the demon needs to guess who their minions are

you, as good, want to waste their time, and what better way to make em miss than an Atheist bluff

[Atlas]

i changed my mind that’s actually pretty neat

[Magnus]

Whoo, Combinatorics!

[Amelia]

i do think separately this script might have too much info on it for longform and thus end up good sided

[Amelia]

snv issue

[Magnus]

Whilst that’s fair, I doubly imagine most information here wouldn’t ebb out slowly in an easy to process manner regardless. Either players would be too callous and share it all too early, or else it’d just come out as soon as the Au’wre timer struck — in SnV it’s possible to decipher most information and narrow down to singular worlds, I don’t quite know if the same could be said here despite the propensity of information. Particularly given the existence of Atheist, Cryptid, Miasma etcetera.

[Chomps]

my reading comprehension is not on that level you mistake me for someone that thinks