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Yes? I don’t get what’s hard to understand from my point of view, I’m not classifying liars as some amoral
holigans
One less terrible player, good
I think it’s like a consistent position from inside your head but it is not at all consistent with how in my experience literally anybody uses the word liar in practice
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the problem that you have to consider is that whether or not you intend to the term liar still has connotations that exist in the real world and no matter your intent people are still going to consider those connotations
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It’s also consistent from how people use the word lying and liar around me though, this isn’t a position I just made up
You live in a strange world unfamiliar to me
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Yeah, people can use different definitions of words if they want to, free world. The majority of the ppl use the same definition for the sake of utility and communication, so. The rest of us can use the different definition of the word and understand each other
This wasn’t intended to be a gotcha I was just genuinely confused becuase I don’t know anybody else who would describe that person as a liar
That’s because most people seem to have negative contagions of the word “liar” and when people call people “liars” they usually mean it in a negative way, even though from my experince it’s usually just people not intentionally trying to lie
the next conversation between me and litten
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In my experience people have a negative connotation of the world “liar” because it means, to them, “a person who spreads intentional mistruths”, and this is generally considered a bad thing to be
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And a person who calls somebody spreading untruths out of ignorance a liar either 1. asserts that the person does not actually believe themselves talking or 2. asserts that the ignorant person is presenting themselves as an authority on a subject on which they are not one (and thus lying) even if they believe htemselves
I mean yeah that’s true
But that definition doesn’t also cover the times when people call each other liars or whatever for reasons that aren’t intentional
I mean people call each other liars for things that were unintentional but in my experience it’s just, like, an accusation that the person spreading untruths was lying. Often an incorrect one. Like:
“You lied to me, you told me birds die from eating wedding rice”
“I didn’t lie, I genuinely thought it was true, I’m sorry, I was just misinformed”
Is an exchange that tracks to me, and I would expect to hear the latter line over
“I did lie, but it was because I genuinely thought it was true, I’m sorry, I was misinformed”
I do sometimes hear people say “oops I lied” about instances where they were genuinely misinformed, like “his car is outside right now [glances outside] oops I lied, maybe he’ll be here soon”, but this has always just read as a figure of speech to me? As an exaggeration of malicious intent for humour’s sake.
If somebody said this and I asked them “why did you lie” they’d probably go “you’re taking it overly literally, I didn’t lie, I was just wrong”
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yeah thats a firuge or speech
In my experince it’s, “I didn’t mean to lie” not “I didn’t lie”
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then why are you completely willing to call people liars despite those known negative connotations when you don’t intend to use those connotations
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The same goes for “lying to yourself”: notably, I wouldn’t call somebody believing something they had every reason to be true “lying to themselves”.
If somebody read in a credible source that birds die from eating wedding rice, and they believed it was true, I would never say they were lying to themselves. I would only say they were lying to themselves if, say, they previously believed the myth, read in a credible source that it was false, and then continued to believe it anyway, for the sake of their own feelings or something like that.
“Lying to oneself” is, in my experience, reserved for that subset of experiences where somebody believes something despite not having good reason to believe it
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