GOAT^2 - Game Thread (5/15) - Day 6 - Mafia wonnered

[Lemonfairy]

and then thread descends into wordle madness

[Lemonfairy]

@May

Can someone who Lemon thinks she has a chance with ask her why she didn’t vote yesterday

already answered
I showed up just in time for EOD but I was on my phone and couldn’t figure out the voting thing

[Lemonfairy]

think I’m going to post my Magnus ISO now
don’t know if I’ll have time to finish May’s

[Lemonfairy]

Title: somewhat biased ISOs of outed scum for fun

Part 1 of 2: Magnus

@Magnus

Vulgard was really critical entering Kaguya-sama, questioning people about everything and writing really long posts. Since that isn’t happening here, I’m vibe-reading Vulgard as a bad one.

vibe-reads Vulgard as scum for NAI posts

@Magnus

By the way, I dare to call YBW’s opening post NAI. Everyone knows she spent the last hour prior to daystart typing it up on a whim to look towny, and going to that extra effort legitimately has a bad look. Nullscum, for sure. I dare to disagree.

@Magnus

A villager doesn’t need to make the effort to act town in their opening post; they can do that later. But a wolf can’t afford not to look town, even from the beginning of the game. That was my point.

calls YBW opener NAI and then scumreads it

@Magnus

The game has been slow, so I’m trying to shake a few hornet nests. Part of that is a surface “hey, Vulgard’s acting differently, I wonder why?” and examining your behaviour through that lens, when I’m sure the context explains the change. I hold no attachment to any early reads, and I never even voted you.

You recently played one game with me — Kaguya-sama. Associative reading is definitely something I dabble or used to dabble in (i.e Morbtainado), so just let me do my thing. If I was hardaccusing you, I’d already be pushing for your elimination.

backing off on Vul

@Magnus

Readlist (Unordered)

Town JOAT:

• Magnus

Townread:

• May (subject to change later)

Townlean:

• Zorvo

• Lemon

Nulltown:

• Silviu

• KingTroll

• Marl (variant depending on those two reads which may or may not exist/be reasonable)

• Eliza

Null:

• Min

• Lol

• Bradland (actively)

Nullscum:

• YBW

• Vulgard

• Molly

Scumlean:

Scumread:

interesting

where’s O.kazo?

Vulgard: Perhaps I should ask: why do you feel comfortable with unaligning me with several players based on thin reasons?

@Magnus

Maybe I have a hidden agenda, or maybe I’m contextualising your interactions in how I’d go about them, and a wolf has no reason to make themselves look bad trying to make their partner look good. You’re not a bad player, Vulgard, you know better than to do that.

slippery answer

just say the reason

@Magnus

I don’t buy it. Not this early, you don’t partner yourself when you can’t hide behind mechanics to save yourself or make others look worse. Just saying.

O.kazo

@Magnus

It’s close. My readlist is based on my mood and the time of day.

lol

@Magnus

Only time will tell when and if my reads fluctuate, but the longer I survive the more likely it happens.

this is so funny in hindsight

@Magnus

Hey Min. Am I acting obviously villagery enough?

@Magnus

Why did you ping me twice in the same post?

Magnus dodging Silviu’s question

@Magnus

I think Vulgard’s overemphasising what I’m actually doing.

@Magnus

Here’s how Vulgard’s misinterpreting what I’m doing

overemphasize → misinterpreting

talking as if Vul is town (otherwise, town looking at someone they scumread would say “misrep”)

Eliza: magnus and marl are wolves

@Magnus

Eliza, this isn’t okay. You can’t use for TMI from our triple wolf rand to make yourself look good. Social deduction doesn’t work that way.

@Magnus

I’m not entirely sure what you’re thinking of me, Vul. You’ve made it clear that you think I’m wrong for weak reasons, but nothing more than that.

@Magnus

How confident are you on that read? Would you bet on it?

Brad: can you explain why you had lemon as a townlean in your list earlier?

@Magnus

Vibe read. I liked Lemon’s posting at the time.

@Magnus

I haven’t specifically looked at Troll yet, sorry. From what I’ve seen they’ve done alright, but whatever whatever.

response to May asking for takes on her fake KT case

@Magnus

On the one hand, an evil has no reason to draw attention to the possibility of them being evil unless it fulfils a purpose, a way to make them look good. On the other hand, if you rand evil it’s always on your mind, and sometimes you feel the need to post your thoughts about it. I can’t remember May mentioning future wolf games in Morbtainado or Flicker, but maybe I’m misremembering. Maybe I’ll check in the future.

response to May’s post about her dear of randing wolf

Brad: I’m awful at finding scumreads

@Magnus

Easier to find townreads as wolfreads as evil, because good act good and you don’t want to accuse your fellow evils. Might be a clue.

Magnus’ reads list also had 0 scumleans and 0 scumreads

might be a clue

@Magnus

Setting up a new wagon when you dislike the current wagons is a good look.

Yes, it’s possible w!Zorvo wants to redirect attention from another evil, but otherwise an evil doesn’t need to do this. It’s a good look, not a surefire look.

hedge

@Magnus

Strange. Why OMGUS vote Lol over your current scumread? Very interesting indeed.

a pattern I’ve noticed is Magnus just points out scummy things but doesn’t call them scummy

@Magnus

There’s possible a wolf between Silviu/Brad, but my personal agenda wants to play with them both alive for at least another day, so…

VOTE: O.kazo. Surprised I haven’t been wagoned yet. It’s almost a tradition for me at this point.

second to vote O.kazo (after Zorvo) for no reason

doesn’t vote scumreads for “personal agenda”

Marl: not opposed to O.kazo dying, do think I prefer silviu though

@Magnus

If you think they can’t be V/W, that makes this so much easier. I wouldn’t be shocked if both remained easy wagons throughout the rest of the game.

hmmm

@Magnus

I’m sorry, but I’d have to laugh if Vulgard legitimately flipped evil.

so you don’t believe the read?

Vul: there’s not really a case that I have on O. Kazo, I just think their posting is incredibly lame and I keep forgetting they exist which usually happens with wolves.

@Magnus

It’s usually easy to find one person to scumread. Would you say there are any other players (other than the ones you’ve already mentioned) you have an unfavourable opinion on? Anyone else at all would do.

hmmm

@Magnus

I accused Vulgard because he was in a favourable position if he was evil, receiving townreads for sounding reasonable and being present without doing anything, so I pushed him, and the case was carried by other people after that.

There’s possibly a wolf between Silviu and Brad, but I’m not voting either because I like Silviu and know Brad has a reputation for being a town mastermind or something. I’ll give them both another day.

I’m voting O.kazo because yes.

yes

@Magnus

Nobody was doing anything, but you were acting like you wanted to appear helpful. It’s more of a red flag.

@Magnus

Making an early read based on nothing, because you want to be seen as useful when everyone else is meming and thus receive a townread for it.

@Magnus

Starts a back and forth with Eliza.

this feels like an exact repeat of Magnus’ eariler post

@Magnus

Early wagons usually aren’t important, and this is your way of appearing proactive when everyone else is still meming.

I remember wolf!Magnus saying early wagons aren’t important in Overhaul

@Magnus

I am not returning for EOD, huh.

I should probably sleep, alright. Everyone alright with that?

asking thread if it’s alright for you to sleep

who even asks that?

if we say no, are you just going to… not sleep?

@Magnus

I’d call this scummy but I don’t think you fit into any scumteams I’m thinking of yet, so you both get a pass.

talking about KT and YBW townreading each other

@Magnus

I can’t believe some people would have the gall, the sheer audacity to nominate me for execution on this particular day.

too much focus on self-defending than solving

reminiscent of self-defense in Overhaul when scumbuddy beancat was dying

@Magnus

Anyway, I’m unhappy with the current state of affairs. Marl hasn’t posted yet, so I’m not opposed to that wagon existing, but I’d love to set up a train on… someone else, because the Lemon wagon isn’t working for me either. I was thinking Molly, but I haven’t actually looked at their ISO yet.

interesting

@Magnus

BTW I’m almost glad Min died; not because a JOAT died, but because I was thinking Min could be evil after the O.Kazo flip.

smh

@Magnus

Townread:

• Zorvo

• Marluxion

• May

Townlean:

• KingTroll (Kinda).

• Lemonfairy.

Nulltown:

• Vulgard (I can see a world where Vul flips evil, but I’m not interested in pursuing this right now.)

• Eliza (unlikely pair with O.Kazo, imo.)

Nullread:

• Illwei

• Lol

Nullscum:

• BradLand (Although that’s mainly from a lack of interaction.)

Scumlean:

• Molly

• YBW

Scumread:

@Magnus

An opening wallpost for the sake of a wallpost is not a towny behaviour. Using it to make yourself look towny is a bad look, especially since they aren’t difficult to make. This left YBW at nullscum.

repeat of reason

@Magnus

Vulgard: good but only kinda, ultimately null.

Zorvo: can’t read this guy.

Magnus: what a mess.

Eliza: kinda suspicious, but only from lack of content.

Nothing dynamic, nothing substantial. Appearing helpful. (Yes, I know I can be hypocritical in this manner.)

talking about YBW’s reads

self-conscious about how they appear in thread (talking about Magnus and note on hypocrisy)

@Magnus

If YBW is evil, I’d feel content branding both Vul and Marl as good, myself.

this is flip-floppity

@Magnus

I personally disagree with executing Marl today, but that’s just me.

@Magnus

Brad’s frustration is giving similar vibes as Min was yesterday, albeit for different topics. Although the common denominator was Marl both times. It’s like you’re both voting Marl because you’re annoyed by him, not because you believe he’s the most likely evil.

VOTE: YoubutWorse for now. Stand down from voting Marl unless you have a valid wolfread and interpretation of his actions.

after ISOing Brad:

@Magnus

D1!Brad was definitely active, we just didn’t interact a whole lot.

that’s you conclusion?

that Brad was active D1?

@Magnus

I was happy with you having a wagon for pressure reasons, but I never wanted you executed today. Seems fairly straightforward to me.

Magnus’ response to Marl questioning how Magnus went from “Marl hasn’t posted yet, so I’m not opposed to that wagon existing” to “I personally disagree with executing Marl today, but that’s just me.”

@Magnus

I had my own perspective at the time, and I didn’t earnestly believe Molly was towny. As a matter of fact, I hadn’t paid attention to anything of Molly, for some reason. You can’t expect me to townread someone I haven’t noticed .

tbh you didn’t notice O.kazo either (they weren’t on your reads list)

@Magnus

I didn’t actually scumread Vulgard anymore, but I very easily could’ve said I did and jumped on that wagon if I was evil. What, it wouldn’t have been a good look? Are you suggesting it would’ve been better for me to bus my partner for no reason, instead of sparing villagers with a very real possibility of being executed for no real reason?

@Magnus

Or in other words: I was thinking Molly, but I haven’t looked at their ISO and so I won’t vote them. After making a case on my other scumlean, YBW, I voted them instead. Actions speak louder than words.

@Magnus

I can’t really prove I wouldn’t do this, but losing an evil on the first day for no reason , especially when they’re LHF, is a terrible scenario. Regardless of whether or not I would’ve changed my vote at the end, at the time I voted O.kazo was a serious contender to be executed and I would’ve acted accordingly, especially knowing I wouldn’t make it for EOD. If I hadn’t expected to miss it, sure.

further focus on defense

@Magnus

This post bothers me on so many levels. It’s like you’ve viberead YBW as town and you’re not even concerned about the possibility of being pocketed, to the point where you’ve already verbally accepted losing to said pocket. On D2, because you want to be friends with her. Are you sure you’re being objective?

I’m starting to think you’re mainly disagreeing with the YBW case because of who brought it up.

Magnus frustrated KT is not convinced of Magnus’ YBW scumcase

talking to KT like KT is town

@Magnus

If I am Mafia, why did I kill Min? If I am not, why did Mafia kill Min? From your eyes?

min was voting you at EOD

@Magnus

Have you looked at YBW by any chance, Zorvo? Making sure that case makes sense to anyone who isn’t being immediately suspected.

@Magnus

I can’t vote Marl in good conscience. You do what you need to do, but I’d be expecting him to flip Town. I’d only be pleasantly surprised otherwise.

not pushing back on Marl being town

@Magnus

Also the fact that O.kazo flipped red, which means I’d need to be bussing pointlessly in order to be evil.

Magnus really milking this O.kazo flip

@Magnus

I don’t know if I really have scumreads. As in, anyone I’d stake as being evil. YBW seems the most likely fmpov, though, so that’s where my vote went.

hmmm

@Magnus

YBW is also voting Marl, so that doesn’t help. I didn’t notice that until now.

@Magnus

The wagon on Marl formed way too quickly if it’s pure, in my humble opinion.

the wagon:

Marluxion (5): ElizaThePsycho, Zorvo, Lemonfairy, lol, May

Magnus (2): Vulgard, KingTroll

YoubutWorse (2): Magnus, Marluxion

Not Voting (4): mollylikesorigami, illwei, BradLand, YoubutWorse

@Magnus

This is my readlist, not yours. Kingtroll’s in townlean because I haven’t played with him, and for all I know you’re getting duped.

to YBW

Magnus scumread YBW but talks as if YBW is town being duped by KT (Magnus trying to instill paranoia)

@Magnus

Here’s what we can observe: Magnus voted O.kazo at a time when Vulgard seemed unlikely to flip, and having backed off on a Vulgard read earlier, Magnus cannot vote Vulgard without looking tricky. w!Magnus clearly backed off from voting Vulgard in an attempt to look good, since an evil has no reason to run tests or anything.

Since w!Magnus is partnered with O.kazo, you would expect valid reasoning for said vote; whether through TMI or just saying “meh, vibe reads”. Instead, Magnus chose to explain nothing, choose to keep alive two people they claim a wolf could reasonably be found in, and vote their partner inexplicably. This is a case of pointless bussing, through and through, for the sake of trying to look good. O.kazo only flipped Mafia Goon; in which case, w!Magnus or someone else plausibly in danger is the Roleblocker.

Considering Magnus’s supposed lack of interest in sharing fake reasoning on why they voted O.kazo, it would seem safe to imagine Magnus isn’t the Roleblocker themselves, or else they wouldn’t have drawn such attention to themselves so quickly. Goon—RBer odds are probably 3:1 at the very least.

self-meta towncase is ew

@Magnus

I’ll be changing my vote before I head to sleep. Other than that, unless someone else appears with a scum case on me, I think I’m happy.

lemon: happy with you reads? happy with gamestate?

@Magnus

I’m happy to exist.

^Magnus just being happy while their townread Marl gets wagoned

specifically, Magnus is happy no one else made a case on them

@Magnus

I should head to sleep. Is it alright if I vote Ilwei? Even if they flip Town I understand and agree with the general reasoning about executing players you can’t ever trust to be Town.

again, like D1 where Magnus asked for permission to sleep, they’re asking for permission to vote Illwei

why do you need to ask permission to vote?

@Magnus

VOTE: Ilwei

If you all decide to execute someone else, go nuts. I’d just figure I’d try to help save Marl with this.

Magnus doesn’t try to get people off the Marl wagon but just doesn’t vote on Marl and makes it out as Magnus “saving” Marl when an attempt to save was not even made

@Magnus

Irrespective of whether or not Lol was killed due to his reads, or it’s a PR hunt, the fact that Mafia spent two nights in a row killing moderate posters makes me believe there’s at least one active evil, someone in control of the thread. With one JOAT dead there’s no necessity to dodge a doctor, and if Town was entirely directing the show, you bet a top poster would’ve died.

I knew Marl was going to be executed, I had no faith in any of you. I’m recalibrating my reads, and right now I’m concerned there’s a deepwolf in play. Where to go from here, how to proceed…

sowing the seed of paranoia about deep wolves and active evils in control of the thread

Magnus says “I had no faith in any of you” but Magnus themselves never really did anything to stop the Marl exe

@Magnus

I know I dislike the interactions between YBW and King, how they’re blatantly and verbally pocketing each other and refusing to accept the possibility of the other being evil. I was scrutinising YBW earlier, but I’m thinking I’ve missed out on KT’s slot.

this reads as Magnus being frustrated that YBW and KT would not doubt each other more than scumreading either or both

@Magnus

I townread Vulgard and Zorvo… Molly didn’t vote Marl… you could be good, but I can’t say I strongly “town”read you. This is a mess, but it’s not unwinnable by any means.

to May

Vulgard: i think ybw is towny today and magnus trying to wolfcase her yesterday after wolfcasing me two days ago seems like he’s trying to push mls

@Magnus

In which case let me case a third player, and drive the point home.

Magnus is not casing to solve or out of conviction, but casing to look good

then Magnus proceeds to ISO Eliza

@Magnus

In worlds where Eliza is good, she was planning to take a more proactive approach this game anyway .

As evil, this is just unnecessarily boldly audacious.

@Magnus

In worlds where Eliza is evil… O.kazo just tied the two of them together, Eliza was spooked and tried to distance while playing it off.

this is shade

@Magnus

O.kazo had three votes at the time, so bussing would be applicable.

^this is wrt Eliza’s vote on O.kazo

@Magnus

So I’m the only scumread Eliza still has, and I know I’m Town. Eliza doesn’t seem to have any strong townreads, either?

no conclusion

@Magnus

I think I just want to sheep Marl’s legacy, here. I’m happy to vote Eliza.

ew

@Magnus

I haven’t personally interacted with Molly enough for a townread, and since I barely remembered her, despite her moderate activity, I assumed she was floating and set her as a scumlean. Not an “active” scumlean, so I guess “nullscum” would’ve been better.

However, I’ve gotten the memo, her contribution has not been insignificant. I wouldn’t vote Molly.

Magnus was just saying molly was towny to May

this post is hedge + I wouldn’t vote molly

@Magnus

There are a couple simple reasons.

If we execute Molly and she’s Town, we don’t really seem to learn anything?

• Therefore, there are better info executions.

I decided to listen to Marl’s legacy, which listed Molly as likely Town.

• Since I’m not the greatest reader, I’ve taken this to mean there are better wolf executions.

@Magnus

I wasn’t suggesting an infoyeet, I was saying Molly seemed like a suboptimal execution.

you were totally saying she would be a bad infoyeet

@Magnus

Eliza could very well flip evil. In any case, Eliza would likely need to be flipped sooner or later. I don’t have a solid read on Eliza, but depending on her flip paths could diverge tomorrow and into the upcoming days.

ew

@Magnus

I’ve already claimed to believe at least one evil is relatively evil, of which category Vulgard falls into.

First of all: through the lens that Vulgard is evil, bussing O.kazo is a reasonable course of action. Vulgard didn’t play in Flicker, but O.kazo’s performance D1 wasn’t anything particularly noteworthy. Mafia can usually afford one misexe, and Town tends to grow lenient for a few days after killing one evil this early. So that’s not totally impossible. However , at that point the two remaining Mafia desperately need to keep each other alive, and the roleblocker most importantly; leaving aside the implications of one surviving Mafia against the majority of the town alive, a living JOAT can pretty much start confirming people and making the game near-impossible to win.

Therefore, bussing w!Eliza would be an insanely risky strategy for Vulgard to employ, and possibly a losing strategy if Marl was spared. A lot of people weren’t defending Marl, and for w!Vulgard the optimal strategy would be letting Marl die without looking involved. In that case, Vulgard could vote anyone already suspected, without employing that same risk as putting Eliza on the chopping block.

nice hedge to preface the idea that bussing O.kazo would be risky for scum

this way, when you swing back on Vul later, it wouldn’t look too unnatural

@Magnus

I think that explains why you’ve been more or less ignoring me for the last two days, even when certain other people were scumreading hard.

Alright, cat’s out of the bag. I’m willing to accept YBW as mechanically cleared.

^wrt to Zorvo JOAT claim

@Magnus

From your perspective, should Eliza die and flip green, would Vulgard still be a suspect in your eyes? Is Vulgard a suspect independent of Eliza and you’re surveying their behaviour to see if it matches?

to Zorvo

@Magnus

Hey Eliza, if you were to be inexplicably spared, who would you propose gets the axe instead?

getting Eliza to look at who is pushing them (YBW was leading the charge) and then maybe push the next exe using that

@Magnus

I wouldn’t mind being towncleared, but I’m also going to listen to the JOAT. YBW didn’t visit n2, which means the only world in which YBW is Mafia is if the Roleblocker kills… it’s actually non-consecutive, I thought I knew that.

Okay, nevermind then. Still, it means YBW didn’t kill.

Magnus mistaking non-consecutive to mean every other night

not clearing b/c Magnus is likely not the roleblocker (scum believed Zorvo’s claim and Zorvo checked Magnus and YBW so if Magnus is scum, they would not have moved on the night Zorvo claimed to have checked or else scum would not believe the claim)

wait, maybe voting May would be better if she’s the roleblocker

would still be useless if our JOAT dies though

@Magnus

Isn’t it funny how games go sometimes? Voting back to back with someone you cased a mere day before?

Anything I could say has already been said.

VOTE: Eliza.

Magnus doesn’t believe in their reads (voting with people they scumread)

they are also hyper-aware of how they appear in the thread so they felt the need to point it out every time they vote with someone they scumcased before

YBW: I also dont get what mays doing rn, we are never killing KT here. We kill between illwei/Eliza literally always, killing KT gains us nothing unless hes mafia which i see very unlikely at this point in the game. Its possible I may need to re eval later on but we arent killing him today, nor are we killing vulgard, brad, etc etc. Also what was the point about killing the stronger wolf first? That makes litealy no sense, you kill the people who actually have possibility to flip wolf first

Magnus’ response to above:

@Magnus

Well played, glad I played, Hana Ichi Monme. Point trade, card trade? Didn’t see one, gotta say.

If Eliza flips Green, I’m under the impression that means Town has no idea who’s evil, so everyone oughta reanalyse anyway tomorrow. May should be alive, so the KT case most certainly will be prevalent if Eliza flips green, and if Eliza flips wolf — okay, who cares then? We killed an evil, one left.

cementing the idea that town is lost and doesn’t know who’s evil

saying KT will be “prevalent” is Eliza flips green (not justified, not that KT being scum would make sense if Eliza flips green, just “prevalent” b/c May will be alive)

@Magnus

May’s probably more confident in a w!KT flip than a w!Eliza flip, if I had to guess, in which case fair enough? You can’t expect everyone to vote when they disagree with the direction of the wagon.

making May’s POV out to be reasonable

@Magnus

I don’t really think you needed to claim aloud, if I’m being honest. Yes, it gave you immediate authority, but you also put an immediate target on your back. Neither YBW or I were wagons today, and (as has been pointed out), neither of us are even mechcleared. So I’m wondering why you would’ve done it?

You probably weren’t in danger of being nightkilled.

^wrt to Zorvo’s JOAT claim

@Magnus

I don’t believe it’s inconceivable for Eliza to flip Town, but fifteen hours have passed since this exchange and it feels like if Eliza truly believed her death wasn’t ideal for Town, she would’ve been fighting tooth and nail instead of making one-liners before her disappearance. (I’m not going to say it’s strange she’s been gone that long, people have lives, but the content while she was here is strange.)

as Magnus so aptly put regarding my push on Marl, the burden of proof should not be on the defense but here Magnus is doing exactly what they said should not be done, which is to blame Eliza for not fighting against her push when she is town.

@Magnus

If Marl’s death was required (I disagree on that front, but you do you), I think yours might be, as well. At the very least, drawing on relevant quotes to support why you’re townier than Illwei would be better.

Right now, your behaviour matches the construct of an evil in my head, someone who wants to survive but doesn’t especially care who else dies in turn, someone who can’t find numerous scumreads because because villagers act villagery, and accusing Illwei is an easy way out.

comparing Eliza with Marl (TMI that Eliza is town) but pressuring Eliza more

for both pushes, Magnus was content to sit by and watch it happen but they’re a bit more proactive in agreeing with the Eliza push

again, putting the blame on Eliza for not hard-pushing someone else

@Magnus

Illwei still voting Zorvo, despite being active in the thread after and having read Zorvo’s JOAT claim, really doesn’t inspire much confidence.

shade on Illwei

In hindsight, this might be why Illwei died after Zorvo flipped VT

@Magnus

Someone’s miscleared, I can feel it in the air.

building paranoia

the fact that both Magnus and May have tried so hard to create more paranoia makes me think town really isn’t misclearing anyone that’s strongly townread

the NKs have also avoided strong town voices that makes pushing for paranoia a good strategy for scum

@Magnus

I think in worlds where Mafia doesn’t buy Zorvo’s claim, they roleblock him (just in case) and kill someone else, which suggests Mafia thought he was real. That narrows down nothing, I think the only person who doubted him would’ve been the real JOAT.

confirmation on why Illwei died (they voted Zorvo despite Zorvo’s claim, which Magnus pointed out)

@Magnus

I feel like there’s an evil between YBW and KT, partially due to their pocketing exchange earlier. I don’t think Vulgard’s a wolf. We don’t have the evidence to entirely know whether Illwei’s good or not. Cases can be made for Brad or Lemon being good or evil. People are voting Molly on suspicion of stagnant reads(?). May’s leading the charge.

With that said, I fully recommend everyone reexamines their townreads.

saying there’s an evil in 2 widely townread and vocal players who TR each other b/c of a “pocketing exchange”

doesn’t think vul is a wolf (but later votes them??)

hedgey comments on Illwei, Brad, and me

honestly, the comment on May is v. weird - wdym by leading the charge?

comment on molly is weird too tbh

final words urges everyone to reexamine their townreads

truly scummy

@Magnus

I think it’s clear Zorvo trusted both myself and YBW, but we aren’t mechclear by any stretch of the imagination.

…Yeah, I think Vulgard and May are the only two people I’m willing to trust at the moment. YBW still looks a lot better than the first half of the game, though.

tries to self-clear from Zorvo’s fake check

Magus says they are willing to trust Vul and May

gives a hedgey townread(?) to YBW despite trying to gain trust from dead villager Zorvo (who also townread YBW)

@Magnus

Technically it just doesn’t mean either of us would’ve visited on the nights we were checked, assuming that’s the case. Even if YBW was the Roleblocker, they couldn’t have acted N2 since it’s non-consecutive.

misunderstanding about how roleblocker works

could be real or an attempt to self derp-clear

May: It can’t block the same person twice in a row, but it can block twice in a row

@Magnus

I might be incorrect, but that assumption’s given what “non-consecutive” meant in ‘80s.

yep, I think it’s staged

especially since May is the one responding

@Magnus

I can see a few potential independent worlds.

KT/Molly does seem to work, so yes; Molly could be evil. But I don’t think May’s evil unless she’s paired with specifically Vulgard or… May was voting Silviu EOD1, with a 5-4 split, so May can’t be partnered with Illwei imo.

The issue with a D1 wolf yeet is a difficulty finding further interactions.

interesting

@Magnus

Brad. I’m missing Brad.

@Magnus

From a guess I don’t think Brad and Molly are both evil.

“from a guess”

@Magnus

Think about it this way: YBW and KT are both townclearing each other. If you were in control of the factional kill and they were both Town, why not kill one of them instead of Lol?

so you have an excuse to sow paranoia in town

NKs are just like this and scum like to frame NKs in a way that benefits them the most

that’s why pure NK spec that is not also based on posts are usually wrong

@Magnus

Sheeping Illwei’s vote because they’re pocketing you isn’t cool, smh.

^response to Brad voting Magnus

I noticed Magnus often talks to people as though they’re town but treat the townreads of said person as scum

@Magnus

I’m not convinced either May or Vulgard are evil.

I think there could be one between YBW and KT.

Molly could be partnered with KT, as other people are pointing out.

You or Lemon could be paired with YBW or each other, potentially. But that’s a tinfoil.

@Magnus

Lemon with Illwei, that’s another world.

Magnus just throwing things out to see which one floats

TRs on May and Vul

rest is just a lot of “could”s but not which one is the most likely and no why

@Magnus

In both recent town games I lost, it was because of a pocket. A villager utterly refused to accept the possibility of someone they trusted being evil… and both times, they were. So now I’m wary of pocket attempts.

@Magnus

If one of you or YBW is evil, that is what’s happening, and at least YBW admitted she’d reeval on you if necessary.

^to KT

more sowing paranoia

@Magnus

I want to assume someone’s been miscleared and proceed from there before settling on a Molly wagon or anyone else; otherwise, if Molly and I are V/V and misexed two turns in a row, Town’s doomed and the two wolves are probably chilling. With that said, I’m going to reeval on Vulgard.

“Molly wagon or anyone else”

“Town’s doomed”

“two wolves are probably chilling”

like, why do you want to assume someone’s been miscleared?

and then decides it’s a good idea to reeval their top TR Vulgard (and not May)

@Magnus

@Illwei @BradLand

Why are you both voting Vulgard?

@Magnus

Do you believe two wolves would interact this way?

I could see it in isolation.

@Magnus

The Lol kill makes me believe there’s at least an active evil, the two killers distanced from O.kazo and are now in a comfortable position, given how Town executed both Marl and Eliza. Zorvo was killed because evils believed his claim. by no stretch of the imagination are evils cruising , but they aren’t in such a bad position they need to bus. But if they were in a bad spot D1, and bussed O.kazo… before circumstance changed, leaving them in a better position…

Whatever. VOTE: Vulgard for the first time all game.

and that was all it took for Magnus to vote their top TR

@Magnus

I may have been foolish. I was reading into what KT was saying, just as I did in Flicker, and came to a conclusion based on a vague vibe, just as I did last time. That’s the entire reason why I backed away from the KT/YBW situation and voted Vulgard.

Magnus still vibereading on D4?

@Magnus

Don’t get me wrong, I did say I believed YBW and KT had one evil between them.

@Magnus

If it’s not obvious what I thought was happening, I thought KT was softing JOAT. Hence why I backed off and voted Vulgard.

another self-quote justification that no one really asked for

keeping and eye out for JOAT softs is not a towny mindset imo

@Magnus

I don’t think it’s YBW.

I think there’s one evil between Vulgard/May/Brad and Lemon/Molly/YBW, and those respective orders of likelihood fmpov.

it’s D5 \o/

I already talked about this one but the “one evil between Vulgard/May/Brad and Lemon/Molly/YBW” is not a towny way of sorting

it keeps Magnus’ exe options open

@Magnus

But of course, even if you’re confident enough to call me evil when so many other players have called me Town. Of course you have to be right, and everyone else wrong. From your perspective, nobody else can be evil, I’m the only person who makes sense as evil in your mind. And therefore, you want me dead, and you’ll be shocked when I don’t. This song and dance has happened many times before.

this is just a ton of ATE and nothing substantial

@Magnus

Marl townread me. Zorvo townread me. Kingtroll townread me. Illwei townread me. I believe YBW and May townread me? If I survived this far as evil I’d need the ability to convince others, but you’re certainly not the final boss. I cased you D1 and this is your revenge.

calling on the reads of dead townies

still not very convincing but a little bit better than ATE alone

@Magnus

I personally think this could be a losing POE, even if you’re Town and May’s a wolf. I flip Town, game goes to LYLO. YBW presumably dies tonight, you push May, and for the sake of hypotheticals May flips W. Then you would be killed at night, since the only way you’re left alone as good right now is if there’s a reason. The obvious reason we’ve both been spared as Town is because we’re being left to square up. If either of us are Evil, it’s nothing more or less than a duel.

But then who dies? Brad/Lemon/Molly with one evil between them, Molly’s the most obvious player to be executed.

…Actually, that could be a win if May’s evil. Bringing up KT/Molly as a pair and pushing KT, and using his flip to dismiss Molly as a suspect behind the scenes could be what’s happening here. Either way, I don’t think I’ll be around to argue that case. It’s you or me, the world will never be the same.

this just doesn’t make sense?

why are you so sure YBW dies?

you also TR May but “for the sake of hypotheticals”, May flips wolf?

how is molly the most obvious exe?

think Magnus is setting up molly should their partner May flip

@Magnus

Don’t get me wrong, it’s not universal, it’s not certain you’re evil, but you’re acting like it’s guaranteed I flip evil and anything that says otherwise is my bad and not yours, despite me being Townread by numerous other players. What gives?

ATE instead of addressing Vul’s concerns

which is pretty much the entire post

@Magnus

If you’re evil, Lemon is most likely evil. You can be unpaired, but that’s where my head’s at. I scumread you and Lemon.

If you’re good, I’ll next suspect May. We won’t get that far, but YBW and Brad aren’t evil unless you/May/Lemon are evil, fmpov.

first talking to Vul like they’re a villager

and then pairing Vul with me in a scumteam out of literally nowhere

@Magnus

Execute me if you need to, but it has to be today or else I’m a game-losing misexe. Hey, that’s the same thing you said! But you’ve blinded yourself because I’m just so obviously evil, even when I’m not. Anyway, do your best to convince everyone else, it doesn’t matter whatever I say.

more ATE

@Magnus

Vulgard/Lemon as a team.

May/Lemon or May/Molly as a team? May mentioned having a scumread on you yesterday iirc, and the KT/Molly world he envisoned makes me inclined to include that as a world.

If Brad or YBW are evil, I think I’m willing to lose to them both.

literally just throwing random teams around now

@Magnus

You and Vulgard strongly townread each other, similarly to YBW and KT townreading each other but less overt.

^to me asking why Magnus would put me/Vul in a team

so essentially, Magnus is using the same reason they tried to make people paranoid of YBW and KT as a reason to see me and Vul as a scumteam

when Magnus TRs YBW and KT flipped town

–

I think I’ll end Magnus’ ISO here

[YoubutWorse]

literally only someone with aligned with town cares this much to do a completely unneeded ISO

you cannot convince me lemon is evil

[May]

Magnus did literally the exact same thing

[Lemonfairy]

but my ISO is better

[YoubutWorse]

magnus has reason to as scum however, also their isos were generally worse (thinking about their ISO on both me and vul).

[May]

Now, now, you know I won’t pick favorites between the two people I’ve been talking in thread to today (crossing my fingers behind my back).

[May]

Amn’t outed scum. My plan for if Magnus flips wolf BTW is to die. Most useful thing I can do. There’s a lot of it about.

[YoubutWorse]

Lemon I would say u can feel free to vote magnus now, we only have like 4~ hours left in the day and while that time is valuable I dont think we SUPER need to worry about hammer now like we did earlier. You don’t have to if you don’t want to or if you’re gonna be here later but I’m just saying that I wouldn’t worry about it much

[YoubutWorse]

@May

My plan for if Magnus flips wolf BTW is to die. Most useful thing I can do. There’s a lot of it about.

Good plan we’ll make sure it comes to fruition.

[May]

I should be legitimately considering this world and discussing it with myself and so on but it makes me so sleepy and tired. Magnus/Vulgard doesn’t seem as far-fetched as it used to cause they mention that they would “need to be bussing like crazy” to kill O kazo. Indicative of further bussing perhaps. I should look at this from Vulgard’s perspective if I want it to be a real case, and I’m not doing that, so it’s not a real case, but. You know how it is

[YoubutWorse]

why would vulgard buss their partner today when they have insane thread control instead of just like, getting someone else killed

[Lemonfairy]

@May

Now, now, you know I won’t pick favorites between the two people I’ve been talking in thread to today (crossing my fingers behind my back).

@May

Amn’t outed scum. My plan for if Magnus flips wolf BTW is to die. Most useful thing I can do. There’s a lot of it about.

good plan

[May]

Self reflection and before you read it like that yes I’m town this isn’t openwolfing. Or regular wolfing

So thoroughly connecting myself with Magnus today was probably a misplay - it’s still possible they flip wolf, very possible, and in that case I’ve completely secured a misexecution for tomorrow… but I didn’t get a chance to do proper solving for so much of the game because I wasn’t fully present, so I couldn’t help but try to figure things out with the only other person who didn’t think they had the wolfteam. I’d still rate it like a 50/50 Magnus flips wolf vs not, I just haven’t as thoroughly explored that wolf world because nobody will talk to me about it, because they think I’m their partner. There has to be something showing who Magnus’s partner is, if they have one, and I should be looking for it, but it’s just so frustrating to do it alone. I need a fountain of motivation to draw endlessly from.

[May]

You know I didn’t think that far

[May]

Probably wouldn’t huh. Still stuck in the early game I forget the present exists.

[Lemonfairy]

who do you think can’t be Magnus’ partner?

[Lemonfairy]

starting from there is easier imo