GOAT^2 - Game Thread (5/15) - Day 6 - Mafia wonnered

[Magnus]

I can’t vote Marl in good conscience. You do what you need to do, but I’d be expecting him to flip Town. I’d only be pleasantly surprised otherwise.

[Zorvo]

Like do you not see how they went about day 1? Lol.
Did you not witness their interaction with Min?
Or their partner equity with O.Kazo?

@Vulgard
How about you?
Do you also see this?

[Zorvo]

@Magnus

Although the common denominator was Marl both times. It’s like you’re both voting Marl because you’re annoyed by him

Orrrrrrr

You know

He is wolf and clearly blatantly trying to push agenda on both Min and Brad. (For Proof Min even called Marluxion is shading.)

Kinda odd you don’t see it.

[ElizaThePsycho (Willow)]

i may be stupid

[Host_Account_1]

Vote Count

Marluxion (5): ElizaThePsycho, Zorvo, Lemonfairy, YoubutWorse, lol
Magnus (2): Vulgard, KingTroll
YoubutWorse (1): Magnus
Unvote (1): BradLand

Not Voting (4): Marluxion, mollylikesorigami, illwei, May

[KingTroll]

@Magnus

You’re accusing me of throwing Molly’s name out as a counterwagon. Here’s what I actually said:

@Magnus

Anyway, I’m unhappy with the current state of affairs. Marl hasn’t posted yet, so I’m not opposed to that wagon existing, but I’d love to set up a train on… someone else, because the Lemon wagon isn’t working for me either. I was thinking Molly, but I haven’t actually looked at their ISO yet.

Or in other words: I was thinking Molly, but I haven’t looked at their ISO and so I won’t vote them. After making a case on my other scumlean, YBW, I voted them instead. Actions speak louder than words.

that’s an understandable response. you just namedropping molly isolated from your future case on ybw pinged me but i do respect changing to the ybw case with actual reasoning even if i don’t agree with most of the points in it

@Magnus

I can’t really prove I wouldn’t do this, but losing an evil on the first day for no reason , especially when they’re LHF, is a terrible scenario. Regardless of whether or not I would’ve changed my vote at the end, at the time I voted O.kazo was a serious contender to be executed and I would’ve acted accordingly, especially knowing I wouldn’t make it for EOD. If I hadn’t expected to miss it, sure.

i will say that i’m honestly surprised that kazo flipped red, but the fact of the matter is that two people lost a teammate d1. the fact that you’re saying that it’s bad for maf to lose a maf member is objectively true but doesn’t actually defend anyone given how it still. happened

@Magnus

This post bothers me on so many levels. It’s like you’ve viberead YBW as town and you’re not even concerned about the possibility of being pocketed, to the point where you’ve already verbally accepted losing to said pocket. On D2, because you want to be friends with her. Are you sure you’re being objective?

nah i’m mostly joking around i’m not going to throw the game or anything. rvs phase never ends it just dies down a bit. i do town read ybw a lot more than others but a few things have pinged me a bit (their brad/kazo push seemingly being based on one specific post that i didn’t see the reasoning of much without a defense for it and they’ve been a touch flippant today with their votes)

@Magnus

I’m starting to think you’re mainly disagreeing with the YBW case because of who brought it up.

no that’s because marl scumreads ybw and i’m biased against them /j

why i'm not really convinced by magnus's ybw case

@Magnus

@Magnus

By the way, I dare to call YBW’s opening post NAI. Everyone knows she spent the last hour prior to daystart typing it up on a whim to look towny, and going to that extra effort legitimately has a bad look. Nullscum, for sure. I dare to disagree.

An opening wallpost for the sake of a wallpost is not a towny behaviour. Using it to make yourself look towny is a bad look, especially since they aren’t difficult to make. This left YBW at nullscum.

i think the wallpost is fully nai. yeah anyone could make it but there’s really not much difference between “haha i post the funny wall post” and “haha i post the funny wall post + i’m maf”

@Magnus

@YoubutWorse

So how do we get out of RVS bc i wanna like actually do stuff but at the same time no one has put out any readable content

States an intention to want to be helpful, which means we can raise the bar for YBW.

i think this is a fair read on ybw. although stating that you want to do stuff with content but there’s no content doesn’t usually make content appear

@Magnus

There’s nothing really useful from the beginning, though. And I know nobody was being useful yet, but there isn’t really an effort to try and read anyone else.

i mean personal bias but one of the reasons i pushed vulgard was because their opening posts went straight for doing reads. as a proud shitposter i’m fine with this however to give a charitable light to remove any bias i can say that i see where this read is coming from and it doesn’t look manufactured to me

@Magnus

Responding to my comment on the wallpost, YBW changes the message to “wolves need to win as well as look good” which is just self-explanatory? I wasn’t saying that wolves don’t need to get misexes, but they need to look good while doing it, like a villager just making reasonable mistakes. So this is more of a deflection post if anything.

this i really don’t see. this feels more like a mech misunderstanding like me and may had about lying as town rather than something ai

@Magnus

@YoubutWorse

Eh I kinda disagree. Not that I have a strong read on troll, but Im kinda weary of people who post like “haha im town but Im so scummy and scum are gonna get me mis-exed”

No strong reads on anyone yet, really.

i mean they explained in this post exactly what their thoughts were. don’t know if you misquoted but your comment here doesn’t actually relate to the statement beyond… ybw saying they didn’t have a strong read on my posts yet

@Magnus

Nothing dynamic, nothing substantial. Appearing helpful. (Yes, I know I can be hypocritical in this manner.)

there’s some fenceposting here but i don’t think it’s as fluffed up as you’re making it out to be. the zorvo read is entirely fluff but i completely understand ybw’s eliza read at the time and i don’t think this readlist was made out of “oh i have to make a readlist now”

@Magnus

@YoubutWorse

Assuming you are a town, if you were a wolf right now, what would be the main noticeable differences between wolf you and town you?

I don’t like questions, because they put the pressure on other people to explain themselves while leaving yourself unscathed and looking good because, hey, you’re engaging in the thread.

okay but questions are really good for making content. specifically asking a few questions isn’t ai i think if ybw was only asking questions that’d be scummy but they’ve made a few cases and pushes of their own

@Magnus

Seems to read from vibes, not from analysis. Which is valid.

mood

@Magnus

@YoubutWorse

Based molly, i have not read silviu at all but I think this anlysis of those posts (which I kinda just wrote off as a lot of words) makes sense logically. I wouldn’t be against a silviu wagon now

“I haven’t read this person, but I’m okay to execute them.” Like a wolf not caring who dies, as long as it’s not their partner.

true but also i still feel like this is hypocritical coming from you specifically. why is this scenario a wolf just because silv’s cw flipped red instead of it just being someone who’s on the opposite side wagons as you

@Magnus

Joking about being evil, not alignment-indicative, but I’ve noticed wolves are more likely to joke around than villagers are. I explained this in Morbtainado iirc, but I can reiterate myself.

i’ve been joking around as much if not more than ybw. would you scumread me for it

@Magnus

Another nullread. Wolves don’t need to analyse other players to discern their alignment, wolves only need to gather information to avoid incriminating themselves, so a lack of reads can be AI.

this is true

@Magnus

This could be an attempt to shift attention away from O.Kazo by saying “I like the Silviu wagon, Vulgard’s being strange, but I don’t get why we’re voting O.Kazo”, without taking credit. Might be a stretch.

ehhh if it’s a deflection it’s really light for me. they kind of explain their reads which as much as scum could also do that i think i can see it from a town pov

@Magnus

Joking about being evil.

eh

@Magnus

Draws back to the idea of deflecting from the O.kazo wagon.

that’s a true correlation but also reads evolve so i don’t know if this is as much deflection as it is the potential of having reread parts of the thread

@Magnus

This is an actual analysis post, which is good. It also applies to O.kazo, yet YBW didn’t seem to feel comfortable voting them.

kazo had been fairly widely scumread/tossed heavily in the poe by this point though while eliza wasn’t really in anyone’s poe? i can see ybw’s logic in pushing someone going under the radar over someone everyone generally agrees is an okay lynch

@Magnus

If YBW is evil, I’d feel content branding both Vul and Marl as good, myself.

already said i agreed with this

@Magnus

Could be wanting to save O.kazo, while leaving a way out if that execution is undeniable.

i really think that scum!ybw flips to silv by this point. they’ve set up the groundwork for it they’d have been on silv over marl at this point

@Magnus

An O.kazo execution might seem undeniable, so YBW is trying to recover by discussing the possibility of O.kazo flipping wolf and what that would mean, without voting them yet.

i will say that their brad read has been pinging me sour

@Magnus

Yeah… but it’s nothing definitive, hence the “scumlean” and not a “scumread”.

and again i do like how you ended this as a scumlean. i think that ends you on a townier standpoint even though you proceed to vote ybw for this

things got busy and i’ve got a wedding to go to so i’ll be back later/on my phone i wanted to rush out this wallpost before i lost my poor keyboard

[Magnus]

@KingTroll

true but also i still feel like this is hypocritical coming from you specifically. why is this scenario a wolf just because silv’s cw flipped red instead of it just being someone who’s on the opposite side wagons as you

The difference is that I allow myself to be hypocritical, and until someone calls me out for it this isn’t a problem.
Also the fact that O.kazo flipped red, which means I’d need to be bussing pointlessly in order to be evil.

@KingTroll

i’ve been joking around as much if not more than ybw. would you scumread me for it

I don’t really think you have been, or at least I haven’t noticed anywhere near the same prevalent activity.

Imagine this scenario for a second: you’ve just randed wolf. You don’t want to be inactive, so you post… about anything in particular, it doesn’t matter as long as you can’t be accused of lurking. You want to appear helpful, because that’s what v!you would do, but you can’t genuinely analyse your partners because that’s not good for you. I do believe playing as Mafia is more stressful than playing as Town.

Anyway, this doesn’t apply to you. You haven’t been “pretending to be helpful”, as I’d put it.

@KingTroll

and again i do like how you ended this as a scumlean. i think that ends you on a townier standpoint even though you proceed to vote ybw for this

I don’t know if I really have scumreads. As in, anyone I’d stake as being evil. YBW seems the most likely fmpov, though, so that’s where my vote went.

Enjoy the wedding.

[ElizaThePsycho (Willow)]

i DARE the mafia team to jump on marl and hammer him

[Magnus]

YBW is also voting Marl, so that doesn’t help. I didn’t notice that until now.

[Vulgard]

@Zorvo

@Marluxion

If I die to the FoL bad reads goonsquad when I’m as obvious town as I’ve ever been that’s not on me

Except….Your an obvious wolf there is no town here.

i’m starting to realize my folly @Marluxion

this post is going to look so bad if marl is a wolf but i really don’t think he’s a wolf guys please stop hopping into the thread and dropping wolfreads on him

@Zorvo

Marluxion is outed wolf.

he is not
why don’t you flip the silviu slot before him at least i think that slot can be a wolf even though i said i think he was spewed town (i’m not confident)

also i think kingtroll is obvious town at this point unless he’s a really good wolf

[Magnus]

Hey look, Vulgard’s agreeing with me. How the turns have tabled.

[KingTroll]

@Vulgard

also i think kingtroll is obvious town at this point unless he’s a really good wolf

for full transparency the last game I just played on mu I rolled Mafia and got almost universally townread. died D1 anyway because our flagbearer maf got flashwagoned but such is life

[Magnus]

Flagbearer seems like bad design in theory. Does it work better in practice?

[KingTroll]

@Magnus

Flagbearer seems like bad design in theory. Does it work better in practice?

no

[ElizaThePsycho (Willow)]

clocktower

[ElizaThePsycho (Willow)]

ignore the fact clocktower has Scarlet Woman and Mastermind and Pit-hag

[Magnus]

BRB, setting up a 10V4 game with four Flagbearers.

[KingTroll]

guys hear me out

town flagbearer

[ElizaThePsycho (Willow)]

that’s just Saint

[Magnus]

I would say BOTC’s good design because it’s entirely built around the idea that the Demon is indispensable.