GOAT^2 - Game Thread (5/15) - Day 6 - Mafia wonnered

[Vulgard]

eliza

posts i found towny

you know the rules

posts i found scummy

and so do I

[Marluxion]

do we even have a choice

[Vulgard]

@Lemonfairy

but Vulgard, what do you think of my reads?
which ones do you not like (and why)?

i went into this in my post about you but it’s more of a case of “i don’t know how you even got there”
like your post about thinking everyone other than marl and molly is town or unaligned with o.kazo. how did you get there
what’s the reasoning behind all these townreads and unaligns that you didn’t actually give in the thread

[Marluxion]

like
either way i’m not going to self vote
but the amount of people refusing to re-evaluate is making it difficult to see any other outcome today

[Lemonfairy]

I could explain but I have like 3 pages of notes I don’t want to type up
I’m working on a case (sort of) now so yeah

but it’s essentially a combination of townreading/leaning everyone else and looking at associations

I actually really want to know where you disagree and why because I want to see if the world I have could be real or if I’m just grasping at nothing

[Vulgard]

like you spend most of day 1 placing meme votes and stuck in perpetual catchup mode yet day 2 you come in with a GOD SOLVE that’s completely unexplained and then you ask people for opinions but it’s like… how does this even work

[Vulgard]

@Lemonfairy

I actually really want to know where you disagree and why

it’s not that i disagree (except for marl which i just explained) it’s just that i’m… confused by it and it seems really out of place

[Lemonfairy]

I’d be willing to re-eval if all my townreads tell me I’m wrong

[Lemonfairy]

I’m not asking for opinions on my reasons because I haven’t given any
but just on a surface level, what reads do you disagree with/think are wrong?

I kind of just want a sense of where other people’s worlds are idk if that makes sense

[Marluxion]

zorvo will not tell you you are wrong unfortunately

[Lemonfairy]

@Vulgard

it’s not that i disagree (except for marl which i just explained) it’s just that i’m… confused by it and it seems really out of place

ok that’s fair ig
it did look like I had 0 progression from how I went about it

[Vulgard]

@Lemonfairy

but just on a surface level, what reads do you disagree with/think are wrong?

why is molly partnered with o. kazo would be my first question
she basically ensured they’d go over yesterday

[Vulgard]

@Lemonfairy

Vulgard/Zorvo/Troll
YBW/May
Eliza/Brad

lol/Ilwei/Magnus

Molly
Marl

also i feel like a lot of people are punting their reads on ybw
why is ybw town

[Lemonfairy]

@Vulgard

why is molly partnered with o. kazo would be my first question
she basically ensured they’d go over yesterday

her vote was what pushed the kazo wagon over but the way she did it I think could be from a bus
more on this later

@Vulgard

also i feel like a lot of people are punting their reads on ybw
why is ybw town

they were solving (this might not seem like a good reason but I think it can be simplified to just those words)

like usually for me, when I vibe with someone’s read/have a mindmeld or someone notices something that I completely overlooked, that’s a pretty strong indicator for me that they’re town
it’s not really one post in particular but several points in time that I think comes from town and a solving mindframe

looking at notes

• P#989 saying Marl was trying to kill LHF
• P#1006 noting Brad putting Eliza in town with no reasoning
• P#1062 while I don’t agree with it, the POV that Brad could be scum for the way they talked about both Silv and kazo being good exes when Silv/kazo could be v/w felt suuuper towny to me. Like, this is something I don’t think a wolf would notice and then zone into. I think it’s much more likely to come from a town that’s been hyperfocused on solving for someone to make a take that is so nuanced.

oh no I lied
looks like it’s mostly from P#1062 but I also found other posts towny so it’s not just one post alone

[Lemonfairy]

@YoubutWorse

The way you brought up the sivliu wagon in the post I quoted earlier to m read as a mafia trying to make both wagons look like good options when it’s v/w. If okazo is mafia, you are the first person I would look at bc it looked like you were trying to make both wagons viable and convince people to potentially go for silviu later when your scum partner okazo was on the block. Thats how I view it at least, doesn’t make a ton of sense probably but it does to me

my bad, this is the actual post
got the number wrong

P#1081 not P#1062

[Marluxion]

@YoubutWorse

I hate how Marl keeps saying this as it feels like a wolf trying to kill a LHF town and then deny it afterwards as “something we had to do eventually”. You can say you don’t know how to read someone, but I absolutely hate “it might be one we have to take.” That is so scummy to me

this is just straight up chainsaw defense

[Vulgard]

eliza

posts i found towny

@ElizaThePsycho

Every recent town game I remember I have tried harder (I remember like one but still)
Every town game I’ve been executed
I have a feeling the combination of recent good wolf games and the idea that higher activity from me = wolf will be my undoing rather than anything I actually do

i like this
that said i don’t think it’s super villagery because i recall eliza presenting an interesting idea at the start of the game in htf which i incorrectly townread her for

@ElizaThePsycho

@O.kazo

If it’s because he reached his postcap, I think scum would watch out more how many post they left with, and try to not reach theirs too early, to react quickly, if needed, (I don’t know if Marl’s last posts fell in this category or not.) while still want to write some posts, so they could avoid the position I’m stuck with at this moment.

This post is 90% anti-spew

this is true but easy for a wolf to point out

@ElizaThePsycho

@O.kazo

Fine, I agree that not every post might need a postcount, but this is a blatant misinformation.

I think this post spews lol town

@ElizaThePsycho

@O.kazo

Fine, I agree that not every post might need a postcount, but this is a blatant misinformation.

i don’t think a wolf treats their partner this… agressively ? it doesn’t look like theatre, since its something meaningless that lol doesn’t even give a meaningful reply to
if it was intended as theatre then lol would’ve given a reply other than “”
and as mentioned above i don’t think a wolf treats their partner this aggressive
“this is a blatant information” and “fine” read to me like “I’m legitimately annoyed with this player” which I don’t think a wolf would express on something this simple, not against a partner and not in the main thread
(getting annoyed over something as simple as this is but still)
i suppose o.kazo could’ve intended it as theatre and simply not communicated this (it feels incredibly in-character), so its a light spew, but still

this is probably the towniest part of eliza’s iso, the take seems very towny from her to have

posts i found scummy

@ElizaThePsycho

I’m mafia

still think this is ew

@ElizaThePsycho

My objective this game is to be the scummiest scum you’ve ever seen and not be executed

@ElizaThePsycho

Foolish assumptions
I’ll probably get executed anyways though

and the follow-up doesn’t help
there’s one follow-up post that i actually liked though, refer to the towny post section

@ElizaThePsycho

I’d say it’s scummy ngl

@ElizaThePsycho

If only mildly

@ElizaThePsycho

I think they didn’t realize it was a joke as either alignment
But feeling condemned by it is more scummy because mafia care more about their appearance

i don’t like this take very much though i can’t articulate the reasons why

@ElizaThePsycho

magnus & marl are wolves
VOTE: Magnus

@ElizaThePsycho

@Marluxion

I wanted to wait for Silviu to post more but if people are gonna be hung up on me not saying it’s best to just talk about it instead

Simultaneously wolfy & townie mindset
Townie: Waiting to post more so they can see if their read is good or not
Wolfy: I was gonna say that it’s wolfy cuz wolves are concerned with appearance but that’s stupid here. But it is also wolfy because he could be waiting for Silviu to post more so that he can
Okay it’s just mildly townie mindset

@ElizaThePsycho

@Marluxion

this part is what pinged me mostly

there is a lot of assuming happening here and very little actual deduction
it’s like it’s assuming he’s town and trying to explain his behavior that way

I actually like this tbh

@ElizaThePsycho

@Marluxion

ove

only reason i can see for that is if they are wolf

Not sure how they got to this conclusion tho

Anyways the rest of the quotes is marl confbiasing so

@ElizaThePsycho

Wow that was dumb

@ElizaThePsycho

By this I mean wow my wolfreads were mostly stupid
Still think magnus wolf tho

idk what to make of this progression
wolfreads marl and magnus then immediately backtracks on the marl read but maintains the magnus read

idk if that’s her struggling with tmi to make a wolfread or a genuine re-evaluation, my main problem is that it’s near-immediate like she didn’t give the initial read any thought whatsoever (when i did like the initial read)

@ElizaThePsycho

@Vulgard

I don’t like his worldview, and I think his posts about potentially dying are fake. He also townread me too easily earlier, and he defended Magnus based on thin reasons, without really acknowledging what I had to say about him.

yeah i was gonna say this stuff tbh
had some stuff prepared regarding marl’s posts about potentially dying
erased it cuz i thought it was stupid for a bit
evidently this means it isn’t stupid
i am now reconsidering if that townlean earlier was justified

but now that i’m wolfreading marl she reconsiders again after reconsidering before and calling him town
it feels very opportunistic to me

@ElizaThePsycho

VOTE: Marluxion

@ElizaThePsycho

I think that the people calling you wolf are stupid

and this feels pockety

@ElizaThePsycho

Update after a light skim of O.kazo ISO they are frozen wolf xD
VOTE: O.kazo

and this feels like a bus vote
idk i feel like i’m confbiasing but i legitimately think this sequence is really bad

@ElizaThePsycho

VOTE: Marluxion

@ElizaThePsycho

marl is totally wolf tho

there is no actual reason given

@ElizaThePsycho

honestly i think its plausible that the wagons were w/w
i also think marl is scum
and there was another guy i thought could be scum but i forgot who
uhhh
lemme try to recall
that’d be my poe tho

there is no actual reason given

@ElizaThePsycho

yeah i think we should kill marl today

there is no actual reason given

@ElizaThePsycho

apparently i never said why

@ElizaThePsycho

this game sucks

she honestly feels frozen when asked to explain her marl read

@ElizaThePsycho

hey guys i suddenly remembered why i wolfread marl
thanks lemon for liking this one partciular post

[quote=“ElizaThePsycho, post:1725, topic:3353, full:true”]

@ElizaThePsycho

@O.kazo

If it’s because he reached his postcap, I think scum would watch out more how many post they left with, and try to not reach theirs too early, to react quickly, if needed, (I don’t know if Marl’s last posts fell in this category or not.) while still want to write some posts, so they could avoid the position I’m stuck with at this moment.
[/quote]

This post is 90% anti-spew

its this one

i don’t see the correlation whatsoever

i think eliza is pretty likely to be a wolf and especially if marl is town
her read on marl legitimately makes no sense, the way she’s treating him seems entirely predicated on whether the louder players in the thread want to kill him or not
just read her progression on marl (i largely outline it in this post) and you should be able to see what i mean

i should say that i’m not very good at reading eliza but what i’m seeing here makes me think she’s a likely wolf regardless
part of it stems from the fact i townread marl and i think her treatment of marl is awful so if marl is a wolf then i’d throw this read away entirely but since i think marl is town this looks really bad
she also has some other questionable posts but they have less weight in the read

she does have one very towny post for her imo and that’s the thought that lol might be spewed town from o. kazo which i legitimately do like and having read lol’s iso i think he’s very likely to be town
i think her marl treatment is really bad though and in general her treatment of her wolfreads is bizarre, the marl treatment shifts according to thread consensus and she drops the wolfread on magnus pretty much immediately after saying he’s a wolf (check her iso and you’ll find out)

[Lemonfairy]

eliza is town
we had a mindmeld

[Vulgard]

@Lemonfairy

looking at notes

• P#989 saying Marl was trying to kill LHF
• P#1006 noting Brad putting Eliza in town with no reasoning
• P#1062 while I don’t agree with it, the POV that Brad could be scum for the way they talked about both Silv and kazo being good exes when Silv/kazo could be v/w felt suuuper towny to me. Like, this is something I don’t think a wolf would notice and then zone into. I think it’s much more likely to come from a town that’s been hyperfocused on solving for someone to make a take that is so nuanced.

i’ll read ybw and come back to you on this

[Vulgard]

@Lemonfairy

eliza is town
we had a mindmeld

i think her treatment of marl is awful
though it’s much less awful if he’s a wolf