Netrunner Mafia - Game Over: Mala Tempora

[guavagudetama]

@NinjaPenguin

They treated Eliza in a way that was very hypocrisy=scum which they feel like a better player than than to do

Eliza was suspicious to me mainly because of her backpedal and the way Flygon treated the slot. If Eliza flipped wolf I was hard clearing Flygon and vice versa, but since she flipped town I don’t really have that anymore.
She also actually wasn’t the one being hypocritical iirc? Flygon made a correction on her between the words “read” and “accusation,” but then treated my message where I said “I would like” as if I said “I only want” which was hypocritical.
Flygon’s message was hypocritical in a way that was scummy because they twisted my words to look like I was 100% unwilling to vote anywhere else, when in reality it just helped me if one of them died
Your message was just hypocritical in a way that annoys me because it felt like you didn’t really care unless it was about killing me, but I didn’t think it was “scummy” per se

@NinjaPenguin

They treated Caspore in a pocketing way. Both through their response to the infamous question but also earlier when they were like “YES WHAT A GOOD POINT” to Caspore saying Eliza was scummy for hypocrisy

Can you link the post? I don’t remember this
I probably just agreed because I was hoping for an Eliza or Flygon flip so any logic I could get was kinda poggers

@NinjaPenguin

They didn’t care during a EoD that I think scum didn’t try to push anything in

I didn’t care about that because you think the scum is ME and I don’t think I’m scum

[guavagudetama]

@Flygon

Stop with this shit.
This is how we lose.
This is what you said about me and Eliza.
And I know that solve is wrong.

I won’t know until I flip you

No but seriously why the fuck would I ever listen to this. Literally since you started acting like yourself I haven’t seen a single post that gives me a reason to keep you around.
You can say “I am town. I know I am town. I know you are wrong.” all you want but it just makes you look like you’re trying to control us by talking as if you absolutely know what you’re talking about.

[Arctic]

@Flygon

That’s correct, I called out a post that you did this during early day 1.

Also I can’t find the post ATM, but there was one where you were trying to appeal to Kanave.

nope. i want specific posts. you need to realize your read on me is bullshit and if spoonfeeding you like this is the only way then so be it.

@Flygon

Also not to mention Arctic went and pushed me on the wolfiest thing early day 1 where I directly elaborated to make it clear and he said I was lying about something I was trying to elaborate on so no would could wolfy like shade me for it when I said it wrong.
Arctic take advantage and opportunity of that was wolfy AF.

also false, i made a post saying i didn’t think you were telling the truth about that but i wasn’t reading into it, in the same way that i wasn’t reading into eliza claiming her post on kanave was an RT even though i thought she was lying about it being an RT

@NinjaPenguin

Let’s play some mafia here. Does Flygon genuinely believe that you should 100% know he’s town?

it was vulgard that was doing this, not flygon
and like… no. that’s why i said he could be mafia for his push on me because i think it’s unlikely he genuinely thinks i should know flygon was town, the reason i’m not acting on this is because he was not in my position and did not have my bias on the situation so he could potentially have this thought if he just doesn’t contextualize

@Vulgard

Let me ask you this: is that question from guava the only thing you wolfread them for?

Let me ask you this: is my eod the only thing you wolfread me for?

[Arctic]

@NinjaPenguin

They feel probably better than to scumread someone for tunneling them like they’ve done with Flygon.

that is not why i was scumreading them, it was instead placing a damper on how much i could really townread them due to bias given how bad their push on me is

@NinjaPenguin

. Like telling Shending the wagons were probably v/v (I may be misreading context but it looked like Flygon/Kanave wagons then) and then feeling okay voting Flygon because of the tunnel on him is just so incredibly weh

when i said this i was referring to kanave/shending wagons (confusing i know, apologies)
also i didn’t really want to vote flygon but i wouldn’t have been upset about him dying so i didn’t care to stop it

@NinjaPenguin

I’m curious at the Squirrel/Gorta comparison and if he actually drew any alignment from it

i did not

@NinjaPenguin

@Arctic can you reproduce your deleted one paragraph case about my EoD even if you don’t actually agree with it?

i pretty much talked about it when i was replying to zorvo’s case on you, that was more or less it, with some other stuff i can’t really remember

@NinjaPenguin

@NotArctic I guess I’m just kinda confused about how Arctic operates. Like does he normally hardpush people or is the no hard pushes have EoD preferences (see Eliza push) his M.O.? Does he play so explictly to be in a threadstate that likes him more even as town (see Flygon)? Because parts of how Arctic’s play makes me think this is fine and in character and other parts make me think it’s anything but. I’d want to TR the transparent parts of him but then there are the inconsistencies that push me towards feeling scumread
I guess on net I’m at light scum but it’s just so dependent on the person and I don’t get the person lol

there are a number of games i have recently played on this website to answer these questions, as both alignments. alternatively, you can take my answer at face value even though this may not be ideal

@Wazza

Alright

I’m here to say I’ll be here around 9pm GMT, thought the day started today not yesterday, completely lost track of time

In work atm, wifi is bad so I’ll interact later, I do have two scumreads from when I read in the night

what was the point of announcing this exactly?
you’ve already been afk for like 20 hours, what’s the harm in waiting until you can actually post?

[NinjaPenguin]

Sorry this is fair I misread your post
I haven’t exactly been acting in great faith either because I’m very much in the tunnel and even if I don’t think I’m ever going to change my mind at this point me pushing further and bickering/relitigating things again and again isn’t going to change anyone’s mind and is bad for the thread
So I guess I’ve said what I’ve said and I’m sorry because regardless of your alignment I’ve been making things more unfun
You still have partners I need to catch and I’m going to move towards working on that
The post I was referring to where you were acting towards Caspore’s hypocrisy=scum argument in a way that I looked pockety was #201
Weh

[guavagudetama]

@NinjaPenguin

So I guess I’ve said what I’ve said and I’m sorry because regardless of your alignment I’ve been making things more unfun

WRONG you’re actually really fun to argue with
Another person has made this game unfun but I don’t want to break rule 5 so my lips are sealed

[guavagudetama]

@NinjaPenguin

The post I was referring to where you were acting towards Caspore’s hypocrisy=scum argument in a way that I looked pockety was #201

OHHHH I REMEMBER NOW LMAOOOO
Do you know the context behind that?
Eliza made a fake read and then implied that making fake reads was scummy. Me and Caspore were trying to explain to Eliza that she literally called herself scum.

[Arctic]

VOTE: Vulgard

i think NP doubling down here feels villagery. i wanted to say “well what else he can do” but like… there’s a ton of other things/pushes he can do here, and he’s not helping himself or his team as a wolf by trying to get guava killed and not giving content or pushes elsewhere

i think i’m leveling myself into thinking vulgard’s push on me is just bad. realistically i think i’m probably just annoyed but like… man how many times can you be wrong on someone

[Flygon]

@NinjaPenguin

I have next to zero thread influence and I’m going after the single player most townread by the thread and if I was scum I killed literally the only other person who agrees with me lol
I’m literally banging my head against a rock trying to show everyone what I see and I feel like scum penguin is smart enough to make reads based on what’s easy and not try to kill the single most townread player by the thread lmao

I do like this point.
But Arctic.
He coaches.

[NinjaPenguin]

@Arctic

it was vulgard that was doing this, not flygon

Wait I must have been severely misreading this give me a moment to reread

I don’t understand “their argument on me sucks so it dampers how towny they are to me” because I tend to read things the opposite way (i.e. the more someone’s argument in me sucks the more townie I think they are) but probably playstyle weh

I’d ask you to link those past games but I’m going to be honest with myself and say my busyness means I will never get to reading multiple past games and so I’m going to just ask the other players to describe you because I can’t make any sense of things on my own

[NinjaPenguin]

@guavagudetama

WRONG you’re actually really fun to argue with

The feeling is not mutual I hate arguing even though Mafia brings it out of me
Also I keep saying I won’t engage but who am I kidding I’m a liar

@guavagudetama

Eliza made a fake read and then implied that making fake reads was scummy. Me and Caspore were trying to explain to Eliza that she literally called herself scum.

Did you not use this as the reason to scumread Eliza?
You were using it as a read not just pointing out hypocrisy so the context still reads as what I was saying (you agreeing with a reason to scumread that I think town you would be too good to agree with so it feels pockety)

Okay shutting up again weh

[NinjaPenguin]

What? I’m so confused lol

[Arctic]

@NinjaPenguin

I don’t understand “their argument on me sucks so it dampers how towny they are to me” because I tend to read things the opposite way (i.e. the more someone’s argument in me sucks the more townie I think they are) but probably playstyle weh

i mean… i guess that’s just a stylistic thing. the single most important thing to me is how much a player believes in their read - which i think flygon does, hence he is town, but i also look at the logic of the read because how believable the logic/explanation is plays a factor in how likely the player with the read is being genuine, which it didn’t feel like he was. and when someone is pushing me in bad faith it’s hard for me to go out of my way to try and save them when none of their arguments are made from a genuine desire to figure out my alignment

like seriously
vulgard is expecting me to have gone out of my way to save him but all flygon had done up to that point with regards to my slot was: calling me bad at the game but also that i was a wolf and not trying to solve anything, and that everything i did was wolfy and i was obviously mafia, and as a result was trying to CFD me.

@Flygon

CFD Arctic!

VOTE: Arctic

@Flygon

Y’ALL NEED TO LISTEN TO ME!
WE NEED A CFD!

VOTE!!

@Flygon

Yeah, this can die.

@Flygon

Vote Arctic with me, we got 15 mins.

@Flygon

Arctic CAN be voted if people stop being afraid, fear can cost us a wolf execution.

I’d rather get wolf Arctic out now rather then later tbh.

@Flygon

I’d vote Eliza if I have to but I currently highly prefer Arctic here.

@Flygon

@Shending_Help
@Caspore
@Squirrel2412
@NinjaPenguin

You guys need to vote Arctic.

@Flygon

@Kanave

I kinda want to vote Eliza but i also don’t want to be voting with the two other people i was SRing

I was the one trying to help you and save you.

Arctic, he didn’t give a fuck to save you.

am i supposed to try and save this? am i??? if he was a PR he would have claimed. i don’t give a fuck about saying this at this point lol

[Flygon]

@NinjaPenguin

guess on net I’m at light scum but it’s just so dependent on the person and I don’t get the person lol

This person is always town read as a wolf.
Arctic is an elite player and is capable of coaching others and making game winning plays for their wolf team.
If you’re their partner, you obviously know this.

@guavagudetama

No but seriously why the fuck would I ever listen to this.

I’m not asking you to, I’m just telling you I’m town.

@guavagudetama

Literally since you started acting like yourself I haven’t seen a single post that gives me a reason to keep you around.

Odd way to put it.
But I’m telling you exactly what you needed to do during SoD2.
Ashlyn is either bad town who came in with a terrible resolution.
Or they are wolf trying to make sure Arctic doesn’t receive enough attention and make sure he doesn’t goes over.

@Arctic

nope. i want specific posts. you need to realize your read on me is bullshit and if spoonfeeding you like this is the only way then so be it.

I pointed it out somewhere in my ISO.
You expect me to take 30 Mins to go find it?
I’M BUSY ALL THE FUCKING TIME!!
MY BREAK ISN’T EVEN THAT LONG

I also still have to find the posts that show association with you and penguin.

@Arctic

it was vulgard that was doing this, not flygon

This is false.
Stop being a douche wolf.
Guava pointed out that was even an issue towards me.

@Arctic

VOTE: Vulgard

i think NP doubling down here feels villagery. i wanted to say “well what else he can do” but like… there’s a ton of other things/pushes he can do here, and he’s not helping himself or his team as a wolf by trying to get guava killed and not giving content or pushes elsewhere

i think i’m leveling myself into thinking vulgard’s push on me is just bad. realistically i think i’m probably just annoyed but like… man how many times can you be wrong on someone

It’s Penguin and Arctic!!!

Damn I wish I had more time RN so I can go dig for those associations I’ve seen.

[Arctic]

@Flygon

@Arctic

it was vulgard that was doing this, not flygon

This is false.
Stop being a douche wolf.

dude what the fuck?
have you been reading anything?
vulgard’s main argument against me is that i should have known you were town

stop calling me a fucking douchebag for pointing out objective facts… what have i done to deserve this

[guavagudetama]

@NinjaPenguin

Did you not use this as the reason to scumread Eliza?
You were using it as a read not just pointing out hypocrisy so the context still reads as what I was saying (you agreeing with a reason to scumread that I think town you would be too good to agree with so it feels pockety)

It’s not like “I think this is scummy” it’s like “I think Eliza is scum and if this is the reason Caspore wants to push Eliza that’s fine by me”

[Arctic]

@Flygon

This person is always town read as a wolf.

lol take the hint my guy

[guavagudetama]

@Flygon

This is false.
Stop being a douche wolf.
Guava pointed out that was even an issue towards me.

What did I point out?
Sorry when NP said what Arctic is replying to there I still don’t know what the context for it is

[guavagudetama]

Oh also crazy that you called him a douchebag. Illuminating.

[NinjaPenguin]

@Arctic

i mean… i guess that’s just a stylistic thing. the single most important thing to me is how much a player believes in their read - which i think flygon does, hence he is town, but i also look at the logic of the read because how believable the logic/explanation is plays a factor in how likely the player with the read is being genuine, which it didn’t feel like he was. and when someone is pushing me in bad faith it’s hard for me to go out of my way to try and save them when none of their arguments are made from a genuine desire to figure out my alignment

Yeah I guess when I read a terrible read on me that the player genuinely believes I’m like “yeah you’re town and I will defend you to your death”
Which is why I’m asking for others to vouch for this being your playstyle because it’s so not me

@Flygon

If you’re their partner, you obviously know this.

Correct but I’m not so have fun

@guavagudetama

It’s not like “I think this is scummy” it’s like “I think Eliza is scum and if this is the reason Caspore wants to push Eliza that’s fine by me”

This is so scummy jfc
Why are you praising logic you don’t even agree with like this is not town
This does not come from town
I refuse to believe it
I literally can’t get myself to shut up every post I read sets of more alarm bells I feel like I’m in a building and the fire alarm is going off and I’m yelling to evacuate but everyone else is proceeding with their routine ahhhhhhhh

Okay reading back at Vulgard/Arctic brb