I would say that a strongman shot is incredibly good utility to put into games in general since it helps as a stopgap against some really bricky scenarios which are undesirable for most hosts
see in my eyes I just see the ability as
Find a strong consensus town + use ability = strong consensus town dead
I value cleans as low power relatively
Their major power only comes to fruition when trying to mech solve in lategame which is an inherent set of conditionals to be useful
Honestly I wouldnāt have that much of an issue with it. But the fact that this role ALSO joins scum chat and ALSO gives extra KP, and ALSO cleans is the issue,
I think none of these abilities on their own would be problematic but by trying to give the LW so much utility it just kinda became a broken role
I can see how you get there
Strongmans arenāt quite that good in my mind due to the aforementioned reasons of only mattering if there was a protection attempt
not being connected to scumteams also makes it less good to prepare with since
well iād hope scum would be good at doing some mech analysis
Would it have been better if I divided that utility with bionicās roles utility (of which it has very little)
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I assumed that one wouldnāt do anything
and that a few other abilities wouldnāt do anything even though they had powerful efffects, like the āI want to dieā dayvig
I donāt know bionics actual abilities and I donāt want you to tell me them
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I definitely donāt feel that proud with the game
I donāt think there necessarily was a way to be proud with it since the role power variance was so high
But I want to make it clear and maybe impart a useful understanding that kills and clears are all that really matters when it comes to ultra high variance games like this
The kills and clears were balanced to my inspection, with the asterisk that the town kp needed a kill or two (as in raw kills) to be without condition
Individual very strong roles due to surface inspection of their effects were not as strong by my estimation
I could be mistaken with my experience
But I viewed the game as lightly scumsided when taking the bastard into account
Bastards less allow scum to coast on mechanics and more incentivize them to throw a wrench in the spanner
Thatās how they are scumsided with every time Iāve run a bastard or seen a bastard (except that one bastard mash with invincible godfather scum lmao)
Iām fine with that? I want to incentivize aggressive play and bastardās biggest merit Iāve found is that
You can see in this game how much scum got out of being aggressive
They played extremely well for the most part
In those instances I wonder if town realistically had a good chance of winning if the setup were altered a bit
I guess what Iām saying is this:
I donāt believe that the setup was the main reason scum won
That town was robbed
I wonāt speak to the hosting element though. I simply donāt know.
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And I guess thatās an outcome I like
Thatās when the game being sided is a bad outcome
I apologize for anything unfortunate that happened during the game
Again, I donāt know
And I do agree with your concerns of the game being scumsided. I had them and I changed the lost wolf factional bonus to be even after I initially passed it because it felt too good
I guess Iāll explain why kills and clears are what matters
Itās fun to talk about honestly
Everything goes back to these two
Doctors stop kills
Roleblockers can stop either
Strongmen stop doctors and roleblockers from stopping kills
Roles can fall outside of directly contributing to kills and clears but they still feed back in
We can observe in this game (fmu) that many kills were stopped owing heavily to the strong protection effects
This is an oversimplification (we can observe this with rather blatantly broken roles like vengeful converter bulletproof godfather redirector 1-shot vig) but I agree with the basic concept
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Well that example proves my point
Oops
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Brak, Iām sorry for coming on harsh
I think that you are right to be annoyed
This setup is very much designed in a way that it can feel cheap
I donāt think I could have changed that without gutting the thing and it looks like a decent number of people enjoyed that element
I guess Iāll just say that I donāt agree that itās unfair
Itās just mean
Geyde iāve looked at like 3 roles and have admitted I donāt have an indepth understanding of the setup xo. Iām just saying I think those 3 roles are too powerful. Also I have no clue what creatureās flip was because hosts never posted it
And rude
And assuming you were just being irrational and salty