Too much effort, are you town or scum?
Other than Kiiruma, since I kinda felt like that was more than one person going âno thatâs fineâ for some reason.
Effort is part of the gaaaaaaame Psyaryu.
Avoiding the question!! SCUM!
Nope. Go read Psyaryu.
I would believe you if you just lie to me yâknow â˘~â˘
Which is precisely why I will not answer regardless of my alignment. You need to learn how to form your own impressions, and that requires you to read.
They havent really come back said much after thst post if anything, cant remember if they even teaponded to my wuestion about why they would be fine dying over me which feels wild coming froma. Player who will vote people they believe are playing against the town wincon even if they have a chance of being town.
Achro isnt actually outted, but i consider this a point of no return for gim, so his alignment isnt really relevant anymore
But Trisscar whatâs the difference between me forming an opinion with this subset of messages today and the opinion I would form reading all your posts? An opinion was formed, effort was made! The level that you are expecting of me, the roundabout way you describe things already gives me a feeling of scum, so I donât need to go into any other posts as I form that opinion. Youâre welcomed to defend that opinion but you choose not to so we will leave you there.
Ya but not throwing a bone to someone who i still think isnt lying about have neve rplayed forum mafia seems silly
When i was simply asking if we were falsely clearing kii yesterday shes like This was a diacussion like hour 1 into the day and dismissed any discussion on it more ot less
Ooh now we get into the weeds, yay.
So there ARE in fact arguments for reading people in the moment. Iâve replaced into a couple games before where the entire town was tunneling one or two people who they had utterly convinced themselves were mafia, despite all candidates being town; In those cases specifically, it seemed obvious to me that neither was a good candidate, but the other players were either actively looking for yeeting those people, or had essentially convinced themselves that nothing was good enough to âoverrideâ whatever had caused them to assume mafia to begin with.
You also see this phenomenon with⌠various real world things that often have to do with politics. Also things like cults. A foundation thought can be entirely wrong, but as long as YOU believe it, you are likely to treat it as the sturdiest thing ever and build upon it.
Now the flip side here, is that snap judgements, as I noted before, suck. Most snap judgements are made by doing a quick and dirty comparison to patterns youâve previously learned, whether or not those patterns are reasonable or remembered correctly.
âSystem 1â, also known as the lizard hindbrain, is the one making these snap judgements; itâs the part of your brain that handles deciding whether thatâs a tiger in the bushes over there, or just a rock. System 1 is fast because it has to be, if you spend too long deciding, you might get eaten.
But because it has to be fast, it also tends towards âgood enoughâ. Leaving because you mistook a rock for a tiger, is far more evolutionarily advantageous, than staying because you mistook a tiger for a rock. System 1 doesnât need to be accurate, it just needs to keep you alive.
By contrast we have System 2, which is the âmonkey forebrainâ so to speak. System 2 is logic and reasoning, and itâs slow and methodical. Itâs probably the reason we ended up forming groups and hunting together way back in prehistoric times, because to work together you need to coordinate, and that requires planning and logic.
But System 2 is also lazy. This is probably partially an evolution thing, because again, sitting there trying to figure out if that rock is a tiger, is more likely to get you eaten by the tiger. If something is too hard to figure out with a minute or two of thought, then maybe you should avoid it. This can also be seen with headaches after trying to logic things for too long.
But System 2 is also far more likely to be accurate than System 1, if you donât overstress it. Taking the time to think things over far more often results in good decisions, than a snap vote does.
Hereâs where I cite Daniel Kahneman, whoâs a psychologist who wrote a few books about this stuff, and who one of my recent professors loved to go back to.
shrug Iâd rather automatically believe the newbie claim and be wrong, than not believe it and have a new player feel attacked constantly.
Ehh I mean it kinda did take a good chunk of the day? Up to you if you want to go back to it now, since weâve explored other things and new info has come up.
Now as to how this applies to Mafia.
By itself, this indicates that time should be spent on thinking about each player as you try to figure out what alignment they might be. Snap judgements are cool and all, but building upon them is dangerous and can lead to convincing yourself that something supports your conclusion, even if it doesnât; Meanwhile your actual goal should probably be looking for evidence FIRST, and then forming a conclusion around it.
Somethingsomething looking for evidence of a flat earth after youâve already decided that the earth is flat: Youâll find plenty of âevidenceâ, because youâre not looking for evidence against your conclusion, youâre only looking for evidence to support it.
Unfortunately, there is no surefire fast and easy way to form informed judgements. School isnât a third of our lives or more because âthe establishment wants to indoctrinate youâ, except in a few dictatorships of note. (The US is nowhere near coordinated enough as an establishment to actually be able to do that across the entire country, despite current conspiracy claims.) Itâs that long because it takes that long to build up a knowledge base, so that you can understand more complicated concepts later. Essentially building actually solid foundations AROUND System 1, so that when System 2 inevitably gets tired and swaps out, you still have good patterns to fall back on.
The same idea applies to mafia. Day 1 has a tendency to be almost entirely snap judgements, which is part of why people tend to consider it to be either MASSIVELY IMPORTANT or borderline useless, or at least the more vocal members seem to.
By contrast, ISOing is a common tool to reassess your previously held opinions. Because this is text based and longform, you have the opportunity to look back and see exactly what people said previously, and check that against what you currently remember. Since the human brain truncates a LOT while encoding memory, this often ends up not matching something like half of what you think happened the day before.
But even if you didnât read yesterday, or donât recall basically any of it, or just replaced in for example; ISOing is a way to get an overview of a personâs entire play thus far, without getting lost in the weeds in terms of other conversations going on at the same time, or just other peopleâs posts in general. Reading a personâs posts in isolation can give you a far better idea of what theyâve said and done, than trying to parse it in the middle of everything else.
But thereâs also another aspect, that being the side effects of this being a longform game.
Each Day phase is, in this game at least, 48 hours long. That means that each player is going about their daily routine, encountering IRL events, getting tired, getting hungry, getting distracted, etc the entire phase.
This changes how they respond to things going on in the thread, regardless of their alignment. Players will fall off in posting, will get more snappy, suddenly seem much happier about things, or change tone for any other reason, simply because something happened on their end.
It should be noted here, that this does NOT mean that everyone should be tallying their day on a constant basis in thread. That usually leads to policing peopleâs IRL actions, and that sucks and is NOT the point of this game in the slightest. Weâre not here to tell you that getting groceries took too long you must be mafia, thatâs stupid.
Therefore itâs discouraged to try to read people based on things like âIâm steam friends with them, and theyâve been playing Sniper Elite for three hours, clearly theyâre at their desk and reading so theyâre lurkingâ. Thatâs called angleshooting, and itâs dumb for multiple reasons.
People should not need to spend the entirety of their free time on this game. The fact that players tend to go after low posters more than highposters when they have no idea who to yeet, unfortunately still causes people to assume they have to pay constant attention to the game, in order to not be sussed. Thatâs not exactly mental health positive and Iâm not a fan of it, but Iâm also not sitting here holding a cure-all for it rn.
Because of this, judging someone based on one short instance of time in game is ALSO not great. The reasons listed above and more mean that doing so is going to give you a skewed view of their play, and that tends to lead to your read of them possibly being even LESS than as good as a coin flip. Because this game causes stress, and stress leads to fear responses.
Which is why ISOing is again useful, because now you can see their play over the course of the game. Itâs why I tend to wait till Day 2 or 3 to actually start reading people for anything but general stress checks, because then i have a great deal more data to work off of, and I get a better idea of their âaverageâ that way.
This however does not mean that you have to use ISOing or you suck. Itâs a VERY good tool and I highly recommend using it; but there are other equally valid ways to play the game, and keep in mind that it IS a game, weâre theoretically here to have fun.
But I still am going to push you to using the ISO until you get used to this game and how it works, because that is literally the best tool to use, in my opinion, at every stage of understanding.
And because youâre currently being very lazy, Psyaryu. Those arenât good reasons to sus someone and Iâm pretty sure you know that.
Why am i lock town? I asked u before but u stil havent come back
I had a dream that Kiiruma is 3p and Achro Crescent Beancat were the mafia team. I also had a nasty sleep paralysis I was unable to move but I believe I was awake and that my eyes were open.
Anyway. Fine. Millium town. Have it your way, guys.
Achro mafia. Crescent Mafia.
Last mafia could be a lot of people. Iâm not sure.
Consider interactions with Crescent I guess.
Beancat and Millium both voted me today. I was 2 votes away from being the chop. Sultan also had me at the bottom of his reads at that time.
-t