would you consider “an integrity breach happened so I am giving the affected faction compensation” part of that?
yea
i think godfathers are semi-bastard by intuition
so i would say “no lies unless forced to by a deducible or findable ability” is only semi-bastard
… the deducible part is optional because the way to deduce a godfather is to scumread the greencheck 
Not if it is made with a good-faith effort to be fair to the wronged side
I think my least favorite host decision maybe ever was when a town player breached game integrity and the host response was such that it immediately outed basically the entire wolf team in practice and exactly zero of us would have ever asked for the host to do what he did when literally doing nothing would have felt much less unfair
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fair enough
like
if ur wolves have been wronged talk to ur wolves tbh
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I also think of roles like Atlas in FAM4
do engage with wotm but are fine in mashes and larger games where that’s a theme they’re going for
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don’t let them push you around but if they’d rather have nothing than your proposed “compensation” it’s possible ur compensation is not good for the game lol
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I also think it’s fair for hosts to rule against RAW in favor of RAI (as long as it isnt egregious) midgame, simply because its impossible to account for every instance of that
it is also fair for hosts to end the game early, particularly in a “this game is toxicity-filled so its a draw” kind of situation
I’ve also repeatedly ended games in a scum victory if the game would be decided by the timing of like, a dayvig or a doublevoter could claw back parity. i think this is Fine (but should definitely be codified in your OP that that kind of thing can happen, which i had failed to do in the past)
this also applies to neutrals that are unlikely to result in a kingmaker resulting in a kingmaker, I think
(from osie’s section bastard-lite)
I feel like mechanics like this exist vaguely separate from the bastard designation since you’d ideally let people know these things may exist in advance
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I think all of those are basically Bastard game staples tbh
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Can we demote Geyde
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This is unacceptable
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generally the host shouldn’t end the game early in a Town victory like, ever, just by nature of the Town but i can see some extreme edge case scenarios with bullshit mechanics that you failed to account for
but i think ending the game early given the correct circumstances in a draw, game canned or a victory for Mafia is Fine
but may i re-iterate that the circumstances are of supreme importance in these cases
godfather by its most base definition is the shining example of a bastard mechanic since it will return completely falsified results but single bastard mechanics can be offset by making them counterable/announcing them properly/building the setup to facilitate them
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yeah
I’m not against roles like these showing up
I’m pretty sure nobody would be a fan of these showing without a lot of warnings
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as mentioned in that very quote snipped, if people explicitly know a cult or a jester is in the setup (see: FoL) it’s not really bastard
doesn’t mean they’re fun (Jesters are ~always bad for games fme) but like if they’re known they are not bastard and if they aren’t they are
don’t really think that makes them a separate talking point, same is true for like godfathers and cop sanities and whatnot
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also yeah i think, at least for FoL jesters are definitely bastard if you include it unannounced. same with conversion (although you don’t have to like, explicitly announce it if it’s a semi-open game, the players should be expected to read the cards 
but its still helpful, just not necessary)
silencers are in a “never-include” category for me but if you include them i would lump them in with jesters
let me pose a question
is it possible for a truly open setup to be Bastard?
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Intentionally misleading as a host is the gray area I was most interested in discussing
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