I think it’s more important we talk about mechanics and discuss if they are/aren’t bastard rather than define what bastard is in itself
I’ve seen some players claim that millers/tailors, for example, are bastard - despite this going against years of consensus that I have experienced across multiple communities. “Lies” that are common enough to be predictable and are specifically a mechanic which is accounted for when balancing are not bastard (ie, tailors and millers…)
If I dont like it and I dont think it should be in the game = Bastard
If I like it and it should be in the game = not bastard totally fine
real
I was literally just about to comment on “not liking something doesn’t mean it’s bastard” lmao
Disagree with this on a technical level, I understand the intent but IE: A faction kill randoming isn’t really what I would define as “bastard”. (This is just me being petty)
this is kinda just strictly bastard iyam, not really semi-bastard. It’s directly lying to the players and unless informed of beforehand, or having a way to knnow about it I would just define it as bastard. Especailly since it can affect the game in a large way.
These two I would define as semi-bastard though given it requires at the very least solid play and doesn’t relegate one role to be quite frankly useless.
This is kind of just a distinction on personal vibes though. If you want to define all 3 as “bastard” I would find that okay, just think it might be going far
I agree with everything else.
fuck katze already made my joke but better
uninformed millers & insane/naive etc. cops are completely fine if you announce informed and uninformed modifiers may be in play
otherwise they are strictly bastard
Yeah since in said open setup the host lying to the player about their role and / or other mechanical knowledge can exist
It very much offsets a lot of possible “bastard” elemnts. If you argue that “the host does not lie to the player in any form” then my answer changes to a strict no
we should kill katze
but I don’t know why you’d run insane/naive/etc. modifiers and not announce them. that’s the entire reason why they’re interesting. because it causes social play to be a key factor in solving with mech
I’m assuming the only thing announced is bastard / non-bastard and I would agree
Okay theirs my two cents
See you guys next monday* for the weekly** monday*** discussion
A rolemadness game that gave every player a random role from the mafiascum role list, and allowed a chance to have any modifier from the mafiascum modifiers list, would be fine for insane cops to exist and stuff is what I mean
this is slightly offtopic but I also hate that we’ve started to embrace incredibly boring and monotonous roles like alignment cops as required and commonplace in setups rather than trying to make them interesting.
this post was made by the alignment cop haters club
… have we
So this section is intended to work with a list of “conventional” host-deception roles, but I’m keenly aware I am not a FoLer and can’t accurately define what it is for a community I’ve never played in and only hosted games that didn’t have any of the roles that fit this category (except like a Godfather I think?). However, even in absence of what those roles are, I still think it’s useful to say that you can still run into trouble if you have a ton of them in a setup without warning.
have we really made alignment cops commonplace
I think interpreting “an arbitrary decision” as inclusive of randomly assigning a compulsive action stretches credulity to the point of hard to believe it’s being made in good faith lol. The decision to assign a random target is well-reasoned, and not done purely on a whim. This is obvious. We both know this is obvious.
I think it could fall under Bastard point 3 “generally received as extremely unfun”. Sure. It was just the first unreliable results role that I was confident FoL didn’t use lol.
Again this kind of depends on what level you (FoL, collectively) want to set it at. I think a single Godfather is something no one is going to bat an eye at in a lot of communities for example. It could be better to generalize it as like “even if there are some conventional roles that kinda suck, adding too many roles that suck warrants some kind of warning”. This is basically me coming back around to salt scores, and this would be “don’t let the salt score get too high” clause lol