Wrogn 2 - MAFIA VICTORY

[Marluna]

I will try

[Creature]

@SirDerpsAlot

eh id argue that’s bad enough that its too wolfy to be a wolf

I hate this kind of read.

Most of the times the player being “too wolfy” often ends up indeed being a wolf.

[Creature]

@tutuu

You have a burning desire for the consensus to be wrong, and for you to be right. You want the wolves to be deep.

Yeah I used to be like that too. Until I realized when the game is going well for town it’s better to just keep clearing the POE and going for the easier worlds.

You only consider the harder worlds if the easier wprlds aren’t turning out right.

[Zugzwang]

@tutuu

@Zugzwang as it is right now, spooky will be chopped or maybe it will be randed because Derps doesnt want to vote Ash. Are you sure you want to chop spooky first? You mentioned Kyubey scumreading spooky. I couldnt find it. Can you quote it please? I am concerned about Ash not getting executed

here

@Kyubey

Spooky sure wrote a lot of words. Would be a shame if I read those words and thought they meant nothing and voted them.

but no, I’m not sure I want to kill Spooky first
I think they’re more likely to be wolf than Ash, but I’m rarely certain and now is no exception (…is this to say you are sure?)
still pondering the recent posts about Ash though

[SirDerpsAlot]

Nah I’d disagree and say it’s about Rand in my experience

[SirDerpsAlot]

@Creature

You only consider the harder worlds if the easier wprlds aren’t turning out right

I fundamentally disagree with your easier worlds tho

[Zugzwang]

@spookycat27

turbos != regular maf, but i see your point
i don’t think you can set up this dichotomy though, as I don’t think it’s right to say that v!me, under this pressure, would react differently (ie have a confident read in a game where im lowposting)

I mean, I do think v!you would have a more confident read than you currently do, even if it’s not incredibly confident

You’ve seen 2/3 of my past wolfgames in the past ~14 months, and it’s pretty clear that I’m unable to fake this depth and volume of thoughts as wolf
And (unless I never mentioned this in DMs?) I haven’t played mafia since the very start of September, so I’d be pretty out of it if I rolled wolf

@spookycat27

(it was also new years)
(i also hadnt resisted any other wagon)
(this is a cherrypicked point against me imo)

this isn’t a point about you in isolation
it’s that, when looking at the overall list

tutuu - voted soweli
Zugzwang - me (also voted soweli)
Leafia - voted soweli
Chomps - voted soweli

Ash
Creature
Marluna
spookycat27
SirDerpsAlot

the point does apply to Derps/Marluna/Creature, but they’re likely town for other reasons (also they did not offer to move wagons at eod either)

@spookycat27

@Zugzwang

he jokes (somewhat justifiably) about having a godread on me.

he admits it chat

(i dont really joke about this anymore though because i dont really think it’s true and tbh it really never was)

NYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA thbthtbtbthbth I started believing in it somewhat after Pokemon mafia

[Zugzwang]

also NYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA @tutuu there was a game when you asked everyone to give you themesongs and this song is really good thbthbthtbhtbthbthbthb (IDK if it fits my vibes (probably not) but NYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA)

A Better Tomorrow - Will Stetson x HoYoFair【MV】

[Zugzwang]

@spookycat27

im unclear on if this is something you’re using to push me with btw because it def is antispew

if I had to pick I’d say it’s GTH wolf but I agree it’s most likely antispew

---

at night when I looked over them I originally came to

@Zugzwang

At first I thought this was bad for Spooky and good for Ash but I see some other ideas now

this conclusion
but then looking with fresh eyes I had different thoughts

[Zugzwang]

@tutuu

I think Ash is similar to soweli. Dropped a list of reads. Doesnt feel in sync with the thread. Does “homework” but i see no “soul”.

Can you elaborate on this thbthtthbthbth
I don’t tend to feel soul in Ash’s posts due to his tone, regardless of alignment (unless you mean something different here?)

I do agree with your point about them not being in sync with the thread, and I can see the reads they’ve posted as just going through the motions (IE homework)

@tutuu

I also think its suspicious that he included his read on Kyubey. Usually people post reads that includes dead people right at SoD. To prove they wrote them overnight

Ash posted a read on Kyubey multiple hours after it wa announced Kyubey died. It felt manipulative to me. “Look, i didnt know who died, i just posted my reads, im innocent and know nothing”

Im suspicious at Ash’s implied claim that he didnt see who died like 7-8 hours after SoD

this is a stretch
what you’re saying requires w!Ash to think we would read his post and go “Litten not being there makes him uninformed”
IMO the reasonable explanation, for either alignment, is that Ash wanted to show his thought processes more clearly, so he left it in

[Zugzwang]

UNVOTE for now tthbthbthtbthbthb
mainly because, if tutuu is town*, I trust their reads here about as much as I trust my own

*I do have some paranoia here thbthtbthbthtb but I still think the much more realistic world is T!tutuu

[Ash]

This isn’t a contradiction for me?
I didn’t scumread either Soweli or Ishmael, but given that the D1 vote was between those two players, I voted Ishmael.
I’m annoyed that I was wrong on that read, but I made a decision based on the information I had at the time. To me, Soweli seemed townier than Ishmael. This includes that interaction, but it also was because I saw Ishmael’s unvote as being wolfy. Ceteris paribus, she’d have been voted out. As such, I saw her unvote as being performative, a gamble where she has nothing to lose.
Granted, my wording is off-kilter - unvoting your counterwagon is towny in and of itself, but I saw it as wolfy in the broader context - but my underlying sentiment is not contradictory.

[tutuu]

Im not certain either. But its the correct play, imo. May and Kyubey were vocal about killing Ash. Kyubey was the most vocal about Ash. I think its incorrect to not sheep night killed villagers more often than its correct. Ive won more mafia games by sheeping NKed villagers than games where I tried to solve on my own

[SirDerpsAlot]

ASH Who are wolves gogogogo

[tutuu]

Cute

Zug is powering up

[Ash]

Stealing Leafia’s signature technique.

@Zugzwang

Ash generally has a wolftell of promising to do things, and then… not doing them. His D1 felt fine in this regard but he made 1 post D2.

Counterarguments to both parts of this:

I don’t think “promising to do things that I don’t get around to” is a wolftell. That is just me. It’s best seen in my writing backlog: it’s hit the double digits, with promises preceding Virtuous V. It’s not for a lack of care that it happens; it’s simply because I get distracted.

And on that note, my D2 was a consequence of New Year’s being far, far more busy than I was expecting, mostly because my parents didn’t want to stay in the house at all.
I don’t want to sign up for a game and then only make a single post. It’s just that I haven’t had a spare moment where someone isn’t staring over my shoulder.

@tutuu

100% have to kill Ash today imo… He was scumread by both May and Litten, the N1 and N2 kills. People die for a reason

:impaledcat:

My counterargument is that as mafia, I don’t play things quite as simply. I don’t factional people solely because they scumread me, and I think tunneling on this as being the primary reason both underevaluates my capabilities as wolf while also ignoring the wider context that both players were the main sources of forward momentum within the game.

As you later note:

@tutuu

If Ash is mafia its an easy game.

From my own experience, very few games on FoL are “easy games”. Most of my own experience on the platform has been dominated by me completely misreading people. I understand the loss aversion of not wanting to lose “an easy game”, but by filing my alignment away under that framework is akin to choosing to dream instead of facing the potential (and, FMPOV, the legitimate) reality that we have incorrectly townread a player.

@Marluna

I’M pretty sure your role name and ability at least has some resemblence.

@tutuu

My role name also bears resemblance to my ability

This is kinda true for me?
Would need to squint to see it, though.

@tutuu

I also think its suspicious that he included his read on Kyubey. Usually people post reads that includes dead people right at SoD. To prove they wrote them overnight

Ash posted a read on Kyubey multiple hours after it wa announced Kyubey died. It felt manipulative to me. “Look, i didnt know who died, i just posted my reads, im innocent and know nothing”

I posted them at 2am from a sleepover. I literally did not see that Litten had died until then. Most of my thoughts were written down the night before, and I didn’t see any downside to posting my thoughts on Litten regardless, so I just did it.

I’ve been out of sync with the thread because I’ve barely had a moment to catch my breath, let alone analyze the current status of the thread.

@SirDerpsAlot

Marluna should be hard PoE but no one seems to be putting them their

I don’t think she’s PoE, mainly from how her D1 performance perfectly matches how she would approach the situation given her later claim.

On that Marluna note:

@Marluna

He had almost no substantial read D1, so don’t tell me he had so much other reads at that point. (saying I am townreadong this and this players aren’t substantial reads, especially if it copies the towns mentality at that point.)
(Not having read D1 on itself isn’t a sin yet, I usually don’t have them either.)

I wasn’t copying the town mentality because there wasn’t a town mentality to copy. I was trying to get a stagnant D1 going by noting the people who I townread and the people I wanted to see more from.

@Marluna

He challenged one of Zug’s question, which he thought will make him look back. (He cares about apparence, without doing any towny thing so far.)

I didn’t like how underhanded Zug’s question appeared to me, and I was partially taking out my anger on him. Should not have done this, but I view this as NAI.

@Marluna

Derp’s/Brad inactivity and Chomps activity which were his main focus until the Soweli/Ishmael incident. (For him both UTR mentality and active mentality are bad, which is just…)

What else was there to go off of at the time? I thought Derps was unusually passive and that Chomps was fluff-posting, so I scumread them for that.

@Marluna

D3 he dropped a readlist without even checking gamestate. (Or pretending that he isn’t care about gamestate)

As mentioned before, it was 2am, and I didn’t have the time nor patience nor mental stability to really understand the game state.

@Marluna

Tell me, why, where and how should I townread him?

I recognize that I have made townreading me a difficult thing. However, my defense is that I have been as open as I can about my reads, about where I stand on issues and how I have gotten there in a way I do not believe I do as mafia.

@SirDerpsAlot

ASH Who are wolves gogogogo

Spooky, as mentioned earlier.
No clue on who would be #3.

[Ash]

Forgot the “Good night. ”

[tutuu]

@Zugzwang

Can you elaborate on this thbthtthbthbth

I didnt see emotion that I believe. Ash writes in an official tone but he can be very emotional as a person. Its not about necessarily yelling. You can tell, sometimes, if he’s annoyed or exhausted etc.

Im not sure how to word it. I dont think Ash is so robotic as to ignore ~everything~ in his big wall and just drop reads. Normally humans love to chit chat, fluff, say something funny. Be annoyed, be angry, be sad that theyre getting votes. Be skeptical that their teammates know what theyre doing. Soweli showed a complete absence of that (bar her attempt to ate at eod which made me laugh). Like, dropping a big list of reads just feels like he was “doing his job”. Im not wanting him to write multiple stuff that arent focused on reads, just like 1-2 sentences of humanity i think would have made me believe it more

Im looking at his wall again and in my opinion he’s stretching out his words a tad. Like when you have to write essays and reach a word minimum and you start adding words to make it longer. Almost all if not all of his reads include going back and forth “I am not thrilled, however…” Or “I am, admittedly … That said, …”

This isn’t a concrete reason to call him mafia. Marluna’s might be more concrete, I don’t know. I dont think I have a concrete reason to scumread Ash. Im just confident he has to be mafia because I trust in May and Litten that much. In team games sometimes you just have to put a ton of faith in your teammates to win sometimes, in my opinion. I dont have to solve everything on my own, I just have to do my part

Im reminded of a moment in professional CS:GO where one guy was defusing the bomb. An enemy popped up right in front of him. However, he didnt pull his gun out because he knew his teammate was there. He trusted him that he will protect him and he did. If it was SoloQ it would be everyone playing for themselves, he would have pulled out his gun, but here he fully trusted his teammate and just kept defusing the bomb. You see this different in mindset a lot in video games between SoloQ / casual play and tournaments

[tutuu]

Well I missed his new posts just now. Let me see

[tutuu]

Well that post is much better than his last one imo. In terms of townyness. Sorry if youre town Ash