Weekly Monday Discussion #7 - Defining Bastard

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#61

I would also extend this to the scum, seems weird to grant one side favor

#62

i’ve seen town choke mechlocks that’s absolutely no reason to call the game

4 Likes
#63

conceding is a different story but calling the game on your own without the game being completely mechanically locked is not a good move

4 Likes
#64

if wolves don’t want to play it out they’ll concede

3 Likes
#65

I agree on this front ftr

#66

that’s why i said that you shouldn’t end the game in a Town victory
i would generally say Mafia should never win by your fiat unless they have actually reached parity and had it taken from them by a bullshit role that is Fine in every other scenario (e.g. Town Dayvig)
the solution here is, of course, to include parity wincon, but this is Not possible in multiball setups so

Cookie Thread Act 4 (Act 5): The Fifth One
#67

personally i don’t call the game for wolves unless parity/fucked up xylo with locked votes/mechanically can’t lose
the third of which hosts should try to make as difficult as possible because imo xylo is integral to the game

2 Likes
#68

yeah exactly

#69

this is niche, though. i’ve just ran several multiball setups where it happened and just want to account for it

#70

a poorly written open setup might have the potential to be bastard
I think of the classic ‘gunsmith checks for guns, SKs use knives’

a more relevant example is cfm2 having desperados alignment check before shooting which, while an interaction that can be understood, is unclear

2 Likes
#71

i think “gunsmith checks for guns, SKs use knives” is reasonable if that interaction is made clear (and if it’s not, that’s more on the host not making it as clear as possible what conditions gunsmith gets a guilty under)

4 Likes
#72

This of course assumes a bastard definition that not everyone might agree with

Misleading is a big source of frustration between players and hosts

1 Like
#73

in general, when it comes to actions for the site, I think the delineation between Vanilla, Standard, and Special FM games already captures most of the mechanics you would run into in most games, and saving the Bastard label for Special games that intentionally have unannounced mechanics expressly designed (or extremely likely) to subvert players’ expectations is probably about all that needs doing? like that probably shouldn’t be a whole new category or anything just make sure games are labeled properly (this can be a box on the reviewer checklist)

2 Likes
#74

yeah i think this is a decent interaction especially since i believe that sk should always have some mechanical advantage over base mafia (usually godfather by virtue of being a neutral) but you can’t just
Not tell people

1 Like
#75

yeah we’re not making new categories as much as we are deciding a definition where there was not an official one before

3 Likes
#76

hidden/unmentioned mechanics are the easiest gateway to bastard

1 Like
#77

bastard mostly comes into play when all the cards are not on the table
so closed games usually

1 Like
#78

yea lol

#79

i think an open setup could be bastard-ish if, say, there were multiple cop sanities that all show up as just cop. although i doubt people would say dethy is bastard. hm.

4 Likes
#80

idt i would consider Virtuous bastard despite the copious amounts of bastard and weird mechanics because its semi-open